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Supers Discussion
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Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-07 12:37:20 UTC
Being a former Capital pilot, and being on both sides of the super capital debate I decided to do some research.

Eve is all rock, paper, scissors. Even so, balance is pretty well accomplished from frigates to carriers. Where balance really falls off is supers.

If you look at the following graph.

http://tinypic.com/r/315bntz/5

As you can see on the graph, ship balance increases relatively linear. Cost, DPS and HP are all taken into account.
The number one defense of super capitals are cost. We can see now, that cost is no object in eve. So why not bring super capitals down in not only price, but ability.

The original idea of super capitals has no place in the current eve. Bringing both ships down in power and cost would not only make them more obtainable, but allow regular capitals to be a viable counter. Super carriers get bombers and titans get guns with out siege giving them a one up on their little brothers/sisters. But the gross jump in power/cost just goes against everything that eve stands for. Make them an option instead of a mainstay.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#2 - 2011-11-07 12:51:18 UTC
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
... Where balance really falls off is supers....

Wrong, balance "falls off" at Battlecruisers with a few cruisers standing so tall as to dwarf everything else. Since your objective is to validate the thread (ie. prevent it from being snuffed for being redundant/spam) I suppose that omission of fact/truth is excusable.

Use one of the existing threads!

PS: Nerf the crap out of ALL supers .. nerf them until the pilots who have abused their broken ass state for years run out of tears .. then nerf them some more!
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-07 12:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
... Where balance really falls off is supers....

Wrong, balance "falls off" at Battlecruisers with a few cruisers standing so tall as to dwarf everything else. Since your objective is to validate the thread (ie. prevent it from being snuffed for being redundant/spam) I suppose that omission of fact/truth is excusable.

Use one of the existing threads!

PS: Nerf the crap out of ALL supers .. nerf them until the pilots who have abused their broken ass state for years run out of tears .. then nerf them some more!



Technically supers are tech 1... super carriers are *technically* tier 2 carriers. Why not make them as such, tier 2 carriers. Titans as tier 2 dreads. The jump bridges need to go, and dooms days as well. Refund the skill points for the skills. Jump bridges and DD no longer have a place in the current eve.

As for the graph if I were to add faction and tech 2, they scale in ability with cost, so your accusations aren't founded. Why not do the research yourself. Add in navy vexor and ishtar into the list. For cost and ability, it scales the same as the other ships.

And not nerfing but bringing into balance.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-07 12:57:41 UTC
Since we are throwing around wild ideas...

Nerf supers - get rid of their jump drives. That's it.


Now think about what that did beyond the screams of all the super pilots.


It means that supercaps suddenly become a purely defensive asset as they cannot be used in offensive roles (titan jump bridge is still nice). It makes it easier to defend territory and pulls in more interesting ways to attack it (BIG BLOB of course always works)


If you do that, I *would* say that you ought to be able to construct stations where you could dock supercaps though... because confining a pilot to a single system is a bit too much of a constraint.
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-07 13:01:02 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
Since we are throwing around wild ideas...

Nerf supers - get rid of their jump drives. That's it.


Now think about what that did beyond the screams of all the super pilots.


It means that supercaps suddenly become a purely defensive asset as they cannot be used in offensive roles (titan jump bridge is still nice). It makes it easier to defend territory and pulls in more interesting ways to attack it (BIG BLOB of course always works)


If you do that, I *would* say that you ought to be able to construct stations where you could dock supercaps though... because confining a pilot to a single system is a bit too much of a constraint.


Uhh, who said remove jump drives? And I agree, allow supers to dock. But these aren't wild ideas.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-07 13:25:42 UTC
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
Uhh, who said remove jump drives? And I agree, allow supers to dock. But these aren't wild ideas.


I just did, though I have heard it before.

You don't think it's a wild idea to remove jump drives of supercaps?
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-07 23:22:14 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
Uhh, who said remove jump drives? And I agree, allow supers to dock. But these aren't wild ideas.


I just did, though I have heard it before.

You don't think it's a wild idea to remove jump drives of supercaps?


I take it you're a super cap pilot that likes the way there are ;)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2011-11-08 01:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
If you're going to try to make a point, try to present a graph that looks like it was drawn by someone more than 10 years old. Some of your axises are in log scale some aren't and none of the axises actually have regular tic marks (most of them aren't even straight). Because of that, your graph isn't really a good source to go off of, it looks very unprofessional.

Please come back with a real graph. I'd suggest loading up Excel or the OpenOffice equivalent and having that generate a graph for you.
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-09 03:24:31 UTC
I figured I'd use something that fit the level of forum user IQ. Point proven. Lol
Alara IonStorm
#10 - 2011-11-09 03:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:

Uhh, who said remove jump drives? And I agree, allow supers to dock. But these aren't wild ideas.

The ultimate Station Games ship.

Just De-agress and dock. =/

No thanks, I say don't let them leave Space ever. If an Alliance wants a 200 Supercarriers they should be ready to defend them in there Starbases. Have them Anchor to a spot when you log, they are as CCP says not Solo Pwn Mobiles. Team effort.
Alexandria Aesirial
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2011-11-09 18:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandria Aesirial
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:

Uhh, who said remove jump drives? And I agree, allow supers to dock. But these aren't wild ideas.

The ultimate Station Games ship.

Just De-agress and dock. =/

No thanks, I say don't let them leave Space ever. If an Alliance wants a 200 Supercarriers they should be ready to defend them in there Starbases. Have them Anchor to a spot when you log, they are as CCP says not Solo Pwn Mobiles. Team effort.

You sound butt hurt. Anyway, making supers dock won't change much. If you can get ganked while entering a pos then you can get ganked on a station. You only need a couple more bumps.

P.S. Eve is not all rock paper scissors. There's certainty to some degree.

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#12 - 2011-11-09 18:24:49 UTC
I won't buy any super carrier or titan until they can dock, and this is from a pilot that has all titan skills completely maxed out and is also maxed out in 2 carrier skills too.....The main reason isn't fearing the loss of the ship or it getting stolen, it's that i'm a pilot with now 163 million skill points and can fly every ship in game, so i'm not getting stuck in a flying coffin like a titan or a super carrier or getting a second account to enjoy some of eve's more expensive content...X



Once they can dock, i'll consider it but not before then....Ugh
Skorpynekomimi
#13 - 2011-11-09 18:32:51 UTC
You don't need a second account. Just a character per supercap.

Economic PVP
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#14 - 2011-11-09 18:42:28 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
You don't need a second account. Just a character per supercap.



Means training one char or the other if it's on the same account, and if i did that given that i'm a long term player(8 1/2 years playing non stop), i'd run out of stuff to train pretty quick.....I mean the only reason i trained all 4 titans to max level is because i'm running out of stuff to train as it is...Most call me insane for spending 260 days to max out those 4 skills...Lol


no i'm not interested in maxing out every skill to lvl 5, even those i have no interest in training period, just to keep the char busy, i'm just interested in ship related skills...P
Alara IonStorm
#15 - 2011-11-09 20:57:18 UTC
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:

You sound butt hurt.

Well I do have a lot of messy rough Anal Sex.

Good Times.
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:

Anyway, making supers dock won't change much. If you can get ganked while entering a pos then you can get ganked on a station. You only need a couple more bumps.

How boring and un-unique. No make Super Caps need to be protectable assets, much more interesting then boring docking. Anchor them then you can get in and out as well as the pilot being able to set permission as to who can fly them.

Then make it so the Alliance has to protect there Assets. Same convenience of Docking none of the protection.