These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Trinova-Star fraction hostilities

First post
Author
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#61 - 2011-11-03 01:32:17 UTC
There's been a recent spate of threads regarding surrender to the Star Fraction alliance, and while I'm sure someone will disregard my two-isk's worth of opinion as "meaningless" because it disagrees with them, I'll exercise my right to voice it anyway.

I personally don't see the gain in public surrender, it offers little more to civil dispute than to feed the ego of the victor. Such matters were created, discussed, acted upon and negotated behind closed doors. Private affairs should not suddenly be thrust into a public spotlight, as it shows little more to this unaffiliated public eye than "Oh look, another SF ego inflation post from some poor bastards they beat around."

if the entire relationship and creation of this conflict were public, I would understand a public endng. As this was private I see little realistic gain outside of self gratification in it's ending.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#62 - 2011-11-03 08:10:22 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
There's been a recent spate of threads regarding surrender to the Star Fraction alliance, and while I'm sure someone will disregard my two-isk's worth of opinion as "meaningless" because it disagrees with them, I'll exercise my right to voice it anyway.

I personally don't see the gain in public surrender, it offers little more to civil dispute than to feed the ego of the victor. Such matters were created, discussed, acted upon and negotated behind closed doors. Private affairs should not suddenly be thrust into a public spotlight, as it shows little more to this unaffiliated public eye than "Oh look, another SF ego inflation post from some poor bastards they beat around."

if the entire relationship and creation of this conflict were public, I would understand a public endng. As this was private I see little realistic gain outside of self gratification in it's ending.


Why does an organization make a thread about a new campaign? The production of a capital ship? The adoption of new logo? The beginning of a new initiative? The change of focus? Why does the summit find use for any of these things? It is about publicising a cause pure and simple. For many the cause is profit, for others the cause is simply organizational pride or ego? For us the cause is Radical FreeSpace and our belief that pilots of New Eden should assert their rights and power to travel and conduct business where they please and not bow down to the threats of road-blockers, slumlords and territorial imperialists.

When an NBSI pirate chooses to fire on a neutral starship in open space on the premise the interloper is "invading" their sovereignity that is not a "private" act. It is an act of violence that involves hundreds if not thousands of crewmen and women and may by direct consequence embroil hundreds of thousands more in conflict in the days and weeks to come.

The ending of such disputes (for the Star Fraction) is also not a private act. We see the ideological value in aggressors making apology for the NBSI tendencies and road-blocker practises that led them to hard places and consider such words full and appropriate examples of propaganda of the deed.

Your opinion is noted Caellach Marellus.
But you will grant me leave to disagree.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Koronakesh
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
#63 - 2011-11-03 11:33:16 UTC
Thank you keeping the public record updated Madame Constantine, and best of wishes in renewed hostilities.

SASPR Amir al-Mu'minin

Kei Masuda
Les Enfants de Gaia
#64 - 2011-11-03 12:23:34 UTC
Graelyn wrote:
Good ol Jade.

When proven wrong, she will never fail to double down.

*shakes head and disconnects*




Out of interest: what is she wrong about this time?
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#65 - 2011-11-03 13:01:51 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Your opinion is noted Caellach Marellus.
But you will grant me leave to disagree.


As is your right to Captain, this is a situation where it's best to agree to disagree.

But thank you for the response.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Mordus Sith
Kickurass Industries
#66 - 2011-11-04 12:56:51 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
There's been a recent spate of threads regarding surrender to the Star Fraction alliance, and while I'm sure someone will disregard my two-isk's worth of opinion as "meaningless" because it disagrees with them, I'll exercise my right to voice it anyway.

I personally don't see the gain in public surrender, it offers little more to civil dispute than to feed the ego of the victor. Such matters were created, discussed, acted upon and negotated behind closed doors. Private affairs should not suddenly be thrust into a public spotlight, as it shows little more to this unaffiliated public eye than "Oh look, another SF ego inflation post from some poor bastards they beat around."

if the entire relationship and creation of this conflict were public, I would understand a public endng. As this was private I see little realistic gain outside of self gratification in it's ending.


Why does an organization make a thread about a new campaign? The production of a capital ship? The adoption of new logo? The beginning of a new initiative? The change of focus? Why does the summit find use for any of these things? It is about publicising a cause pure and simple. For many the cause is profit, for others the cause is simply organizational pride or ego? For us the cause is Radical FreeSpace and our belief that pilots of New Eden should assert their rights and power to travel and conduct business where they please and not bow down to the threats of road-blockers, slumlords and territorial imperialists.

When an NBSI pirate chooses to fire on a neutral starship in open space on the premise the interloper is "invading" their sovereignity that is not a "private" act. It is an act of violence that involves hundreds if not thousands of crewmen and women and may by direct consequence embroil hundreds of thousands more in conflict in the days and weeks to come.

The ending of such disputes (for the Star Fraction) is also not a private act. We see the ideological value in aggressors making apology for the NBSI tendencies and road-blocker practises that led them to hard places and consider such words full and appropriate examples of propaganda of the deed.

Your opinion is noted Caellach Marellus.
But you will grant me leave to disagree.



as a matter of interest, how the hell can a 40 man micro alliance control an area covering 7 systems, much less prevent corps from anchoring towers if they wish?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#67 - 2011-11-04 13:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Mordus Sith wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
There's been a recent spate of threads regarding surrender to the Star Fraction alliance, and while I'm sure someone will disregard my two-isk's worth of opinion as "meaningless" because it disagrees with them, I'll exercise my right to voice it anyway.

I personally don't see the gain in public surrender, it offers little more to civil dispute than to feed the ego of the victor. Such matters were created, discussed, acted upon and negotated behind closed doors. Private affairs should not suddenly be thrust into a public spotlight, as it shows little more to this unaffiliated public eye than "Oh look, another SF ego inflation post from some poor bastards they beat around."

if the entire relationship and creation of this conflict were public, I would understand a public endng. As this was private I see little realistic gain outside of self gratification in it's ending.


Why does an organization make a thread about a new campaign? The production of a capital ship? The adoption of new logo? The beginning of a new initiative? The change of focus? Why does the summit find use for any of these things? It is about publicising a cause pure and simple. For many the cause is profit, for others the cause is simply organizational pride or ego? For us the cause is Radical FreeSpace and our belief that pilots of New Eden should assert their rights and power to travel and conduct business where they please and not bow down to the threats of road-blockers, slumlords and territorial imperialists.

When an NBSI pirate chooses to fire on a neutral starship in open space on the premise the interloper is "invading" their sovereignity that is not a "private" act. It is an act of violence that involves hundreds if not thousands of crewmen and women and may by direct consequence embroil hundreds of thousands more in conflict in the days and weeks to come.

The ending of such disputes (for the Star Fraction) is also not a private act. We see the ideological value in aggressors making apology for the NBSI tendencies and road-blocker practises that led them to hard places and consider such words full and appropriate examples of propaganda of the deed.

Your opinion is noted Caellach Marellus.
But you will grant me leave to disagree.



as a matter of interest, how the hell can a 40 man micro alliance control an area covering 7 systems, much less prevent corps from anchoring towers if they wish?


Fear and intimidation mainly.

From what we hear from the locals Malum Exuro generally threaten anybody seeking to establish towers/conduct business in the loops with their often unspecified "big friends" ((the ones with super capital fleets and bad attitudes apparently)).

Ironically they even had some dodgy information minister style identities send threatening Eve mails to me about the kind of "trouble" we'd be in if we went after Malum. Fairly obviously they didn't know much about the Star Fraction!

But yes, mainly its bluff. I imagine to a small industrial corp just setting out in Eve it might be a bit terrifying to have Malum threatening to bring down the fires of wrath on their tower if they settle the loops and perhaps this kind of outfit might consider paying a few hundred million isk a month for "protection and peace of mind" could seem a good deal.

But the reality is Malum is a paper tiger full of cowards unwilling to fight beyond the docking range of their station and carrier reps. Their junior client partner Trinvoa is about 1000x more courageous and its ironic in the extreme that the ice-miners and junior mission runners of Trinova have tried harder in two days than Malum have in months.

At the end of things - its clear Malum Exuro is a fat lazy slumlord alliance that makes its way in New Eden trying to threaten payment out of small industrial outfits and up to this point has been relatively successful in the bluff.

Then one day they fired on a pilot from the Star Fraction.

History is now being written.

And when Malum is gone the "loops" will be free for anybody to make use of without all this slum-landlord nonsense.

+++ Addition.

Just to demonstrate how completely full of hot air and meaningless bluster Malum is we've taken the opportunity to put up a tower of our own (Planet IV Moon 10) "Stone Canal" in their HQ system and we'll be placing our lovely propaganda cans all over their claims in the days to come.

If Malum's "big friends" don't materialize to tear it down then I think we can all see the value of their threats in the future.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#68 - 2011-11-06 12:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine

(post is referrencing a communication from the Malum Exuro executor MzR who did a lot of rambling complaints about how unfair it was that Radical Freespacers were shooting up his Pirate gate campers and making them pay for their aggression in space). For some reason the bulk of the message has been assessed unpalatable for readers, but the essence was fairly simple "its not fair WHY YOU SHOOT US!!!!!"


Well pilot Mzr, there are clearly many issues we will continue to disagree on but I will start by clarifying the situation once again.

Star Fraction became involved in “the loops” because our pilots were attacked. Our ideology holds that the best response to incoming aggression from a regressive entity is to reply in strength and pay back the violence to the measure appropriate.

In this case we discovered a tale of economic woes with Trinova alliance telling us they were paying to rent the Loops to Malum and as part of the rent agreement they were obliged to shoot at neutral pilots in this area of lowsec to keep the area “clean” of strangers. Your alliance (Malum) were therefore painted as “slumlords” who not only charged for “access” to FreeSpace but attempted to oblige your clients to adopt NBSI methodologies to literally do your dirty work for you.

Now perhaps you are telling us that Trinova lied to us? That you never charged them rent? That you never asked them to become NBSI gate-campers? That would at least be a meaningful statement from your lips. We remain curious as to whether this is your assertion.

Or was the fifty lines of angry nothing you posted above simply an attempted smokescreen to disguise the unpalatable truth that we were right about you from the beginning?

Now to the general complaints and wheedling about engagement methods, we’ve quite literally heard it all before. You are an alliance of gate-camping NBSI road-blockers who is entirely happy to drop a half dozen ships on an unwary industrial ship in lowsec and call it “good fun and games” but when you are brought a significant organized threat that takes some skill and courage to confront now you are being “bullied and blobbed”.

Well frankly pilot Mzr that is pathetic.

Whatever happened to live by the sword die by the sword?

Everything you complain about is a tactic of war and let me tell right here and now, if you are annoyed about the things you’ve seen so far you literally haven’t seen anything yet.

And when I name you an alliance of dock monkey cowards I do so with the assurance of personal experience mind and a single anecdote serves to demonstrate for the audience what we speak of here:

A couple of days ago you might recall I was outside your station trying to provoke a fight from a Rapier with my Daredevil class frigate. You decided to undock an (anti frigate thorax) to even the odds in your favour.

“Fine” (I thought) and immediately attacked. Rapier thought the better of helping and left. Thorax and my Daredevil fought for a minute or so and while his anti frigate guns had impressive tracking he was unable to make the kill due to my onboard armour reps. Fight was clearly going in my favour. So your alliance undocked a Remote Rep Dominix and (I kid you not) a Triage Archon class Carrier to keep your Alliance Thorax alliance from a single seat Daredevil! I shrugged and made range and left your thorax to have its armour repaired.

Now I don’t tell this anecdote to complain or tear my hair out or curse fate at the ways of war pilot MZR. This is war, these are the kinds of things that happen in war and the audience must decide for itself the value of anyone’s words who complains this kind of thing. You alleged the Star Fraction have mercilessly “blobbed” you, have hot-dropped and falcon-freaked and bomber-spooked, and consistently attacked your station range carrier+battleship group with lighter ships. Fine. We have. And we’ll keep doing it till you die, run-off or you change your approach to neutrality in the loops. You have gained our attention and we think it is in the interest of FreeSpace you be taught a bloody lesson.

So I'll close by highlighting again what an absolute pleasure it remains to be called a "bully" by NBSI road-blocking pirates in Lowsec Placid. I am proud to be "bullying" the kind of people who are happy to themselves bully lone industials and tiny start-ups in the loops. It is high time you had a taste of your own medicine and if you are already growing frustrated over the 2 month duration of this war then let me promise you more to come and I assure you, with every angry word and gum-mashing contradiction you bring against us in public the reality will be sweeter in space.

As for TRINOVA - pilot Oneida made the choice for his organization and his comrades now pay the price while he cowers in the dock range of a station. It is not Pilot Oneida's industrial ships and mining barges that burn every night. It is not Pilot Oneida's blueprint collections and ratting loot that are spilled across the placid stars. It is not Pilot Oneida's courage on display when groups of TRINOVA battlecruisers attempt to attack our single pilots.

No. Pilot Oneida having provoked the resumption of hostilities spends his nights hiding like the dog he is.

So I'll leave you to plan your war strategy pilot MzR.

Perhaps you will reflect on the reversal and irony of the situation that you who once delcared himself the slumlord of lowsec and terrorized any who would not follow your rules and engagement ideologies and killed for sport "because you could" are now reduced to complaining about being "outblobbed" by a dozen drakes and begging for help and sympathy on the Intergalactic summit for all to see.

Frankly its a gift you provide me here wrapped up in soft fabrics and tied with a bow.

A pirate complaining that war in space is not fair.

And for that,

I thank you.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2011-11-07 06:56:06 UTC
OOC post removed.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#70 - 2011-11-07 14:51:24 UTC
As always, Jade, your war threads are a fascinating read.

Katrina Oniseki

Mordus Sith
Kickurass Industries
#71 - 2011-11-07 16:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mordus Sith
tbh, I thought Jade was doing some 'creative writing' while reading this thread the other day, especially in relation to alliances paying rent for access to lowsec, but then I came across this

Link

..and from reading that, it does indeed appear the accusation of charging rent for access to lowsec sticks.

I don't know anything about trivnova, but that partiuclar member corp 'gallente heavey industries' seems to feel they've been hung out to dry.
Also, I wonder if theres any economic benefit to an alliance in paying rent to operate a pos in losec? With the sky high price of fuel these days and only some titanium/gases moons available to them at best, I'm surprised they turn over a profit.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#72 - 2011-11-07 18:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
double post please remove

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#73 - 2011-11-07 18:28:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
It is an interesting link and nice to demonstrate again the basis for our casus beli.

Chris Libby wrote:
Malum Exuro: We will maintain the deep blue NAP, and continue to pay rent and participate in defense of the Loop. I understand there is some discussion of our poor treatment by Malum, and their lack of support during the initial war with SF. Not having 100% of the information, I am going to attribute this to two things – our general lack of coordination, and Malum not getting 100% of the info. In this particular case, the war was brought about by our defense of the Loop for Malum. I will communicate to Malum that I expect support in any future wars caused by our continued defense of the Loop, and vice versa. We developed this relationship and I feel the only real way to gain allies in this game is to be true to your word. So until they really screw us over, we will maintain our word.


There it is really. Rent to the Malum Slumlords and "defending" a lowsec constellation for an occupying "power".

One thing I'd suggest pilot Libby to address with his Malum overlords is specific defense of Trinova industrial vessels in hisec.

Yesterday this Orca pilot learned a hard lesson on moving his vessel in wartime.

http://www.mordante.aquiss.com/SDorca.jpg

The irony here is that while the vessel was dying (to all of 3 frigates) a combined Malum/Mercenary fleet of 20 battleships was camping a lowsec gate against neutrals a handful of jumps away.

If I was on the "trinova counsel" I'd seriously consider raising this matter as an urgent point of order!

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2011-11-07 19:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Jade Constantine wrote:

One thing I'd suggest pilot Libby to address with his Malum overlords is specific defense of Trinova industrial vessels in hisec.

Yesterday this Orca pilot learned a hard lesson on moving his vessel in wartime.

http://www.mordante.aquiss.com/SDorca.jpg

The irony here is that while the vessel was dying (to all of 3 frigates) a combined Malum/Mercenary fleet of 20 battleships was camping a lowsec gate against neutrals a handful of jumps away.

If I was on the "trinova counsel" I'd seriously consider raising this matter as an urgent point of order!


Hello again, Miss Constantine—and my fellow New Eden. It's been a small while, ne? I hope you've been well.

I just happened to be skimming this thread again (out of sheer coincidence and certainly not to gloat about your failure to answer certain points of recent history), and I happened upon this gem. Being the helpful member of the community that I am, I thought I would take the time to sit down with you and discuss this matter because it is near and dear to my heart-strings. You seem to be under the impression that whatever entity it is whose pilot recently lost an Orca—honestly, I could not be bothered to check—has reason to look upon that unhappy event with the same perspective held by the unfortunate pilot. Nothing could be furthest from the truth. In this Dionysian space-librarian in which we find ourselves, "hands off!" is the name of the game. You endorse it yourself with your claims of adoration: "Free Space," alongside cries of "Hey, listen to me!" and, "Gosh, how dare these 'people' with smaller post counts oppose my opinions?" But I digress.

In many if not the vast majority of corporations concerned with something besides being the personal entourage of a self-absorbed B-list spaceship celebrity, the loss of a ship for "stupid reasons" is a subject not of horror or tragedy but of shame or comedy. "Hey guys, did you hear about that one guy who lost an Orca to three frigates? Did you hear that those three frigates were from ~Star Fraction~ of all people? Guffaw! Let us chortle while polishing our monocles, then defenestration that wireless git. Serves him right!" The only loser in that entire debutante is the poor soap whose Oracle was lost. I hope you feel proud of yourself, Mister-and-Missus- Space Crusader!

On a completely unrelated note, have you checked to see if your kill qualifies for the Goonswarm Shrugged payout list?

Warm Regardless

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#75 - 2011-11-07 20:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

One thing I'd suggest pilot Libby to address with his Malum overlords is specific defense of Trinova industrial vessels in hisec.

Yesterday this Orca pilot learned a hard lesson on moving his vessel in wartime.

http://www.mordante.aquiss.com/SDorca.jpg

The irony here is that while the vessel was dying (to all of 3 frigates) a combined Malum/Mercenary fleet of 20 battleships was camping a lowsec gate against neutrals a handful of jumps away.

If I was on the "trinova counsel" I'd seriously consider raising this matter as an urgent point of order!


Hello again, Miss Constantine—and my fellow New Eden. It's been a small while, ne? I hope you've been well.

I just happened to be skimming this thread again (out of sheer coincidence and certainly not to gloat about your failure to answer certain points of recent history), and I happened upon this gem. Being the helpful member of the community that I am, I thought I would take the time to sit down with you and discuss this matter because it is near and dear to my heart-strings. You seem to be under the impression that whatever entity it is whose pilot recently lost an Orca—honestly, I could not be bothered to check—has reason to look upon that unhappy event with the same perspective held by the unfortunate pilot. Nothing could be furthest from the truth. In this Dionysian space-librarian in which we find ourselves, "hands off!" is the name of the game. You endorse it yourself with your claims of adoration: "Free Space," alongside cries of "Hey, listen to me!" and, "Gosh, how dare these 'people' with smaller post counts oppose my opinions?" But I digress.

In many if not the vast majority of corporations concerned with something besides being the personal entourage of a self-absorbed B-list spaceship celebrity, the loss of a ship for "stupid reasons" is a subject not of horror or tragedy but of shame or comedy. "Hey guys, did you hear about that one guy who lost an Orca to three frigates? Did you hear that those three frigates were from ~Star Fraction~ of all people? Guffaw! Let us chortle while polishing our monocles, then defenestration that wireless git. Serves him right!" The only loser in that entire debutante is the poor soap whose Oracle was lost. I hope you feel proud of yourself, Mister-and-Missus- Space Crusader!

On a completely unrelated note, have you checked to see if your kill qualifies for the Goonswarm Shrugged payout list?

Warm Regardless


You really are going to have to stop mumbling dear, I couldn't make out the sense of what you were trying to say there. Take a deep breath and try again!

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2011-11-07 20:05:27 UTC
Most people think it's funny when ships explode due to your actions.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#77 - 2011-11-07 20:09:29 UTC
*shrugs* means nothing to me Cool

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2011-11-07 20:12:03 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
*shrugs* means nothing to me Cool

Then why did you post about it?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#79 - 2011-11-07 20:16:10 UTC
So the rest of us could laugh about it, of course. The Orca pilot was indeed rather stupid. Besides, isn't it your own alliance making sport of killing industrial ships?

Katrina Oniseki

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2011-11-07 20:17:40 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
So the rest of us could laugh about it, of course. The Orca pilot was indeed rather stupid. Besides, isn't it your own alliance making sport of killing industrial ships?

Yes, we are! I am jealous that Miss Constantine beat us to that one.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn