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Strategic Cruisers - What are they useful for?

Author
Vrodon Wills
Investment Grade Metals
#1 - 2013-06-12 13:43:36 UTC
Hi,

Can someone give me a quick overview of what strategic cruisers are actually useful for?

The impression I get from reading these forums is that there is normally a better ship that is cheaper that can do the same job. I'm happy to be corrected however! e.g.

L3 Missions - Tengu is good but costs a bomb and a Drake can do the same job far more cheaply.
L4 Missions - Tengu can do them but you need faction fit and you might as well get a Raven / CNR which can do more DPS and tank more damage.
Exploration - not sure what is really involved here but videos I have seen online seem to use Force / Combat recon ships instead.
etc
etc

So with that in mind - what is the purpose of the T3 cruisers? What niche do they fill?

I would be grateful for some examples.

Thank you,

Vrodon
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#2 - 2013-06-12 13:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Menda
T3 are multipurpose:

They are used for missions (mainly level 4 and 5)
They are used for exploration running
They are used in PvP


EDIT:

You don't need a shiny ship to run l4 missions in a tengu, it's just that most that do are the people who do nothing more then missions and like to pimp their ride. I own a T2 fitted Tengu on one of my characters and it can tank all the L4 missions thrown at me and DPS is good enough to quickly run the missions.

For exploration, T3's can fit an all-in-one role, so both bonused prober and the ability to run sites.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#3 - 2013-06-12 13:47:43 UTC
Well, in general they can fill many roles due to subsystems changing ship's boni and slots layout. So you have flexibility of one hull for different tasks but you will always have Tech2 hulls which are more efficient in specific tasks.

Invalid signature format

Vrodon Wills
Investment Grade Metals
#4 - 2013-06-12 14:01:08 UTC
Thanks for the replies.

So the idea is I can train 1 hull + 4 subsystems and then swap those in/out of the hull to fit the role I need the hull to do at that moment.

Ace Menda - could you paste an example of your L4 fit please?

Thanks.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#5 - 2013-06-12 14:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
There are 5 categories of subsystems (offensive, defensive, electronics, engineering, propulsion) with 4 subsystems in each category per each race. To be able to assemble T3 ship you have to train racial cruiser to V and at least 1 level for each racial subsystem category and have at least one subsystem from each category in your inventory.

Take a look here to play with possible configs or just use EFT, EveHQ or pyfa.

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Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-12 14:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanzbar
t1 - basic
t2 - specialized
t3 - generalized

a t3 ship will generaly perform above t1 at multipule roles while not reaching the performance of a t2 ship that is fited to max one of those roles

also as far as combat goes t3s are often chosen because they have the higher mobility and lower sig radius of a cruiser while bringing dps between that of a battlecruiser and a battleship and somtimes maintaining a tank that far higher then a battleship due to high base resistances. in other words they deal good damage while being extreamly survivable.
Atkins Friendly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-12 14:53:20 UTC
Zanzbar wrote:
t1 - basic
t2 - specialized
t3 - generalized

a t3 ship will generaly perform above t1 at multipule roles while not reaching the performance of a t2 ship that is fited to max one of those roles

also as far as combat goes t3s are often chosen because they have the higher mobility and lower sig radius of a cruiser while bringing dps between that of a battlecruiser and a battleship and somtimes maintaining a tank that far higher then a battleship due to high base resistances. in other words they deal good damage while being extreamly survivable.


This is very true.

T3 ships, are generalized, but you can really tweak them to do some amazing stuff. Give you an example.

A Cerebus probably has the most missle dps than most other cruisers/battlecruisers, but their weak armor and slower speed make them vulnerable.

A Tengu can put out close to the same amount of dps as the Cerebus, but with a decent tank and speed ontop of it make it formittable PVP/PVE ship.

The problem with T3 is that they require high amount of skills and isk to fit them sometimes. But a full t2 fit can still be very effective at anything you throw at it.
Merouk Baas
#8 - 2013-06-12 14:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Strategic Cruisers are popular because you can put together a set of subsystems to achieve the ship you want, I.E. a solopwnmobile, a ship that can do everything solo. Want to warp around cloaked? Check. Want to have probe bonuses so you can find victims? Check. Want immunity to warp scrams? Check. You want DPS so you can gank victims? Check. Tank so you survive? Check.

The subsystems don't just give slots to the final ship, they also give special abilities.

All other ships in the game are limited, as designed by CCP. Attack ships don't have tank. Tank ships can't warp around cloaked. Probing/cloaked ships do crap DPS and die easily. If you really want to do one specific task, like missions, or transport, or POS shotting, or probing for exploration sites, they're nice, and sufficient.

But if you're flying around in your cloaky cov-ops scout looking for targets, and ****!!!, there's your war enemy flying a battleship, and he's afk at a gate full of plexes in the cargo hold, are you really going to have time to fly back to station, load up your own battleship, and come back to shoot him?

Whereas if you're flying around in your cloaky, DPS/tanked strategic cruiser looking for targets, you may be able to decloak on the spot, apply battlecruiser-levels of DPS with enough tank to survive if he shoots back, kill and loot all the plexes, and then cloak back up and disappear into the ether.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#9 - 2013-06-12 15:01:52 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Strategic Cruisers are popular because you can put together a set of subsystems to achieve the ship you want, I.E. a solopwnmobile, a ship that can do everything solo. Want to warp around cloaked? Check. Want to have probe bonuses so you can find victims? Check. Want immunity to warp scrams? Check. You want DPS so you can gank victims? Check. Tank so you survive? Check.

The subsystems don't just give slots to the final ship, they also give special abilities.

All other ships in the game are limited, as designed by CCP. Attack ships don't have tank. Tank ships can't warp around cloaked. Probing/cloaked ships do crap DPS and die easily. If you really want to do one specific task, like missions, or transport, or POS shotting, or probing for exploration sites, they're nice, and sufficient.

But if you're flying around in your cloaky cov-ops scout looking for targets, and ****!!!, there's your war enemy flying a battleship, and he's afk at a gate full of plexes in the cargo hold, are you really going to have time to fly back to station, load up your own battleship, and come back to shoot him?



One error:

There is NO subsystem that makes you immune to warp scrams.

There is one that makes you immune to untargetted warp disruption (read dictor bubbles, HIC bubbles - but not scripted infinite points - and Warp disruption bubbles)

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Vrodon Wills
Investment Grade Metals
#10 - 2013-06-12 15:01:56 UTC
Could a cloaked Tengu (for example) get in and out of low-sec through gate camps ok?

Is it possible to make a fit to warp cloaked, probe things down and deliver decent DPS?

Thanks again.
Merouk Baas
#11 - 2013-06-12 15:06:54 UTC
1. Maybe. Depends on how good they are at placing ships to decloak by proximity, and at catching you during the 1 second or so that you're visible as you turn on your cloak.

2. Yes. What do you think the most popular configuration is?
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#12 - 2013-06-12 15:19:04 UTC
Vrodon Wills wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

So the idea is I can train 1 hull + 4 subsystems and then swap those in/out of the hull to fit the role I need the hull to do at that moment.

Ace Menda - could you paste an example of your L4 fit please?

Thanks.


In addition, many individual layouts can allow you to do a broader range of things with a single ship than any other cruiser without sacrificing bonuses.

They're essentially exploration ships, they're designed to allow you to operate for long periods without docking. This is probably not that valuable to you as a new player, but will get pretty important if you get into end-game exploration.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-06-12 15:56:52 UTC
Vrodon Wills wrote:
Could a cloaked Tengu (for example) get in and out of low-sec through gate camps ok?

Is it possible to make a fit to warp cloaked, probe things down and deliver decent DPS?

Thanks again.


Tengu? No.

For sneaky, cloaky murder look at the Loki and Proteus. If you swap the probing sub you can get a really good tackling bonus too - web range for Loki and scram/point for Proteus.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
#14 - 2013-06-12 18:22:59 UTC
As a WH player, we like them because of their low mass.

As every wormhole has a limit on how much mass you can move through it, we get much more bang for our M3 in a T3 than anything else.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-06-12 21:05:49 UTC
Vrodon Wills wrote:
Could a cloaked Tengu (for example) get in and out of low-sec through gate camps ok?

Tengu? Yes - do it a lot. Be sneaky. Most of the time in losec you can get away... Use your map filters (from f10) to find out which systems have lots of ship/pod kills in the last hour and figure it's likely there is a gatecamp there.


Vrodon Wills wrote:
Is it possible to make a fit to warp cloaked, probe things down and deliver decent DPS?

Warp cloaked with a T3? Yep - fit the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem + Covert Ops Cloaking Device module (+Interdiction Nullifier subsystem in 0.0 / wormhole space to avoid getting caught by bubbles). Probe things down? Yep - fit the Emergent Locus Analyzer as the electronics subsystem + probe launcher module. Decent DPS? Nope. Cloaky or DPS - can't have both.

Tengu dominates level 4 missions, works well in teams for level 5s, but is too expensive to waste on doing level 3s (use a Drake for level 3s). You don't need to faction-fit a Tengu... Tech3 ships aren't really something newer players will use for awhile anyway, probably. Focus on frigates and Tech1 battlecruisers first, probably more fun...

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-12 21:59:55 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
boni


for the love of god there's no such word as boni, the plural of bonus is BONUSES.

@OP

Strategic cruisers are used for many things the biggest use I can think of is wormhole living. Since wormholes don't allow unlimited amount of mass through the fact that strategic cruisers are cruiser sized and can field a BS-grade tank plus battlecruiser-grade DPS means they are perfect for the restrictions in wormholes.

Apart from that some people use them for lazy missioning or exploration as they have subsystems that can boost scanning strength.

Boosting fits also are very popular since they are faster and smaller than command ships (and obviously titans) so are very hard to scan down and catch if you need offgrid boosting but have no access to a POS.