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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#541 - 2013-06-10 22:23:00 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
this does not always work. sure you can see whats inside but that does not determine you will get that loot. If you see whats inside is a BPC, then yes, click all data's till you get it. I have noticed though that other valuable loot items are not consistently in the containers you target. Parts/Materials cans assigned loot is not consistent. If you normally get something through looting parts, if you only loot parts, you might not get any of what you are looking for at all because they were scattered in the materials cans....and vice versa. So it's not a sure thing.


I've not had much time to fully explore the mechanics of this but that doesn't sound right or if it is it sounds bugged, it should work as I described. could it be you've just misunderstood the category the item falls under?

http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution



If I'm only wanting to farm certain items for production.


The new system is to discourage farming and it looks like it's working. You'll need to take chance based stuff just like anything else...hell I would like to have players drop everything when they die but alas...no...the loot fairy either giveth or taketh away.



gee when I'm farming roids or ice for production or fuel, guess what I get, what I farmed for.....


Also please quit trolling, it has only encouraged farming and it is having a huge impact on the market / economy for all the loot items involved in exploration.


Roids will be the next thing to get the loot spew mechanic so enjoy it while it lasts. Lol
Haulie Berry
#542 - 2013-06-10 22:23:08 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.



This is bad, and is going to result in a lot of sites that have been stripped of any significant value just hanging around indefinitely. At least have them despawn if they've been touched and vacated.

I think people are going to "trip" those low value sites to get rid of them faster. Greed is an excellent incentive to be tidy.


Pretty sure greed is a better incentive to leave the competition sucking on your sloppy seconds, tbh. There aren't a lot of good reasons to care about a site despawning if you're the one who hit it - especially if you're making good use of WHs to cover a lot of ground.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#543 - 2013-06-10 22:35:24 UTC
I don't see where the ability to hunt (or bait a hunter) in exploration sites is going to be a problem.

Intel tools that afford protection still apply.

But consider that an exploration ship, while lacking in tank and sacrificing DPS for the probe launcher can still run a heavy AB to run off with and even field tackle gear too. I used to run a 100MN AB on a Cyclone with a large nuet just to keep tacklers off. (worked great on sleepers too).


Exploration is coming of age. I have yet to even find a site to test a mini game in, but this only leads me to look forward to getting a chance in the future, perhaps a late night session. Frankly the whole profession of Exploration has never been about the maximization of ISK in such manner that mission running in highsec or incursions or nullsec anoms are. Exploration is about that Lara Croft/Indiana Jones aspect of the game. Yes you might hit it big and haul in some serious ISK for mere minutes of work, or you might work all day at it and get nothing. But since 2009 I always found, along with many who like this play style, that it's all about "the find" as Indiana Jones would say.

If you explore and then at the end of it say " I can bring in more ISK in the same amount of time!" or "I didn't get all the cans because of spew/gankers/mini game" then exploration is not for you. The "Productivity maximization" crowd already has well-established content to earn ISK in. Just think of the scene from "Raider of the Lost Ark" when Doctor Jones was swapping the golden idol for a bag of sand, the look on his face, and what happened next (he was basically blobbed by his rival and ransomed for the loot). Think of that and you will get exploration.

I have done mainly this since 2009 and have a station lock box with so much valuable loot in it I can't keep track and I'd say most of my attempts at exploration are mediocre at best, and having been run off many a nullsec site by NPC and player alike (usually in half structure too).





Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#544 - 2013-06-11 18:04:00 UTC
Not sure if this is the right place but a reproducible bug with hacking mini-game. After you use a DoT/HoT utility you click a couple of turns taking the utility to one turn left, at this point the next node you click will seem unresponsive and you will be required to click a second node in order for both actions to actually show as completed and have the utility disappear.
CCP Bayesian
#545 - 2013-06-11 18:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Bayesian
Thanks, I fixed the cause of that already so it should be out on TQ right now and fixed.

There is an in game bug reporter as well which is a bit more efficient as it's not always the case that a developer will see a post on the forums.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#546 - 2013-06-11 18:17:14 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Thanks, I fixed the cause of that already so it should be out on TQ right now and fixed.

There is an in game bug reporter as well which is a bit more efficient as it's not always the case that a developer will see a post on the forums.


YeaOops, just got on today after doing some sites yesterday.
CCP Bayesian
#547 - 2013-06-11 19:01:34 UTC
Haha, don't worry about it, reporting problems that are obvious bugs is always helpful.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#548 - 2013-06-11 20:31:19 UTC
Question about what type of depth are you going to add to hacking mini-game? Will players have the ability to up the ante as it were? Maybe two players doing a 3x-4x size mini-game?
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#549 - 2013-06-12 07:39:22 UTC
Oh reminds me, the so-called hints in the soundscape(as per the devblog) seems very faint/not there.
CCP Bayesian
#550 - 2013-06-12 08:57:44 UTC
The first thing we'll be doing is getting setup to make Utilities something that can be taken out of the systems you are hacking and fitted into the module in advance of going off hacking. Without doing that hackers are really still at the mercy of the board generation when it comes to making choices. It also adds a secondary income for explorers that is linked to exploring and ties the hacking more into EVE. This is really the first thing that has to happen to add more depth to hacking and isn't an insignificant amount of work.

Following on from that initially it's a case of adding more Defense Subsystems and Utilities to support more interesting things happening.

We also want to let players be able to influence the result of the hack more. For example in the exploration sites, heading off and tackling certain nodes would let you influence how the scattering of cans occurs. Further we'd like to increase the granularity in failure as well. This creates more options for any new systems that get introduced using the same mechanics.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
#551 - 2013-06-12 10:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Please create some special designed ships within your further design of the hacking process, so the risk (loosing a really high value ship) goes along with the reward (gaining the faction tower bpc because you hacked through 5 layers of pain).

Also: You are doing good work, the new sites are more fun than i thought before. But since the risk-reward is so low now (market-reaction on the gold-rush), I can do a lot more profitable things than exploring.
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#552 - 2013-06-12 11:43:46 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't see where the ability to hunt (or bait a hunter) in exploration sites is going to be a problem.

Intel tools that afford protection still apply.

But consider that an exploration ship, while lacking in tank and sacrificing DPS for the probe launcher can still run a heavy AB to run off with and even field tackle gear too. I used to run a 100MN AB on a Cyclone with a large nuet just to keep tacklers off. (worked great on sleepers too).


Exploration is coming of age. I have yet to even find a site to test a mini game in, but this only leads me to look forward to getting a chance in the future, perhaps a late night session. Frankly the whole profession of Exploration has never been about the maximization of ISK in such manner that mission running in highsec or incursions or nullsec anoms are. Exploration is about that Lara Croft/Indiana Jones aspect of the game. Yes you might hit it big and haul in some serious ISK for mere minutes of work, or you might work all day at it and get nothing. But since 2009 I always found, along with many who like this play style, that it's all about "the find" as Indiana Jones would say.

If you explore and then at the end of it say " I can bring in more ISK in the same amount of time!" or "I didn't get all the cans because of spew/gankers/mini game" then exploration is not for you. The "Productivity maximization" crowd already has well-established content to earn ISK in. Just think of the scene from "Raider of the Lost Ark" when Doctor Jones was swapping the golden idol for a bag of sand, the look on his face, and what happened next (he was basically blobbed by his rival and ransomed for the loot). Think of that and you will get exploration.

I have done mainly this since 2009 and have a station lock box with so much valuable loot in it I can't keep track and I'd say most of my attempts at exploration are mediocre at best, and having been run off many a nullsec site by NPC and player alike (usually in half structure too).







This is the way that I'm looking at it. I explored a bit before the change. I liked it okay but didn't find it that fun. I like making isk like anyone else but when I play I like to have some fun doing it. I know what I can do if I want to max my isk per hour but balance that with whats enjoyable. I don't play this game with 'max isk' as a goal and I know many people who don't just play for that as well.

Since the change I've found exploration a lot more fun (fun is subjective of course). And for me the search aspect is part of it. Yesterday I explored for a few hours and made diddly squat. In the two days before I hit some big pay sites and pulled in over 500 million in the first two systems I hit. I like the not knowing what a days exploration will bring in. It makes the good days that much better. If I wanted to know I was going to bring in a certain amount of isk for every hour I play I would run things like missions or incursion where the reward is more predictable.

I'm also liking the risk vs reward decisions that need to be made. I jump into a system with a lot of sigs and several people in local. Do I risk it or not? The other day I was busy running a site while being alone in the system. Someone jumped in. I cargo scanned a can a saw two good Bps. Then I saw combat probes so I knew the guy was coming after me. (Now it will be seeing scanner probes or wondering if the person had pre-scanned the system). It then became a race to see if I could hack the can before they appeared. It was a hard can. First attempt failed. Then success and as I was pulling the cans in as fast as I could red appeared on my butt. My ship is fitted with escape in mind and I managed to get two more cans in before getting away. Then a check on the cargo hold. Yes! I got the BPs. The whole thing got my blood pumping. If I hadn't gotten the BPs I would have been bummed but the experience of taking the risk is what I'm after in the game as much as isk.

I like the new hacking game. Yep it's rng but the more I've done it I'm finding it part random, part luck and part skill. It's the same with the loot spew mechanic which I wasn't sure I liked much at first. Yeah sure you can't get everything but I'm finding I'm getting enjoyment from just trying to get the 'good thing' that's in the can and figuring out what I can do better to get more cans. It's less boring. Many of my corp have tried the new system, a few have decided that it's not there thing. For them the risk vs reward balanced with the randomness factor doesn't do it for them. Several are more like me.

I'm liking all the changes (not that it's perfect) so much that yesterday I completely changed my skill plan and short term focus to max out what I need for exploring.

Markus Saken
Beyond the Dying Light
#553 - 2013-06-12 12:02:09 UTC
Quote:
We also want to let players be able to influence the result of the hack more. For example in the exploration sites, heading off and tackling certain nodes would let you influence how the scattering of cans occurs.


Do you mean something like:

i'm solo in this site, i must bring skills, equipment and stay focus on hacking game to be able to tractor more cans

vs

I'm with friends so i just hack as quick as i can we can grab all candies anyway.
Galatea Galilei
Nihilistic Mystics
#554 - 2013-06-12 16:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Galatea Galilei
CCP Bayesian wrote:
We also want to let players be able to influence the result of the hack more. For example in the exploration sites, heading off and tackling certain nodes would let you influence how the scattering of cans occurs.

While you're at it, please please PLEASE get the cans onto the overview! Or get their labels to show up all the time instead of only when they're being hovered over, and make the hitboxes about five times larger than they currently are. They're way way WAY to small for many of us to click on in space, even if they weren't moving it'd be next to impossible for some of us in the time allotted.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#555 - 2013-06-12 16:47:19 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.



This is bad, and is going to result in a lot of sites that have been stripped of any significant value just hanging around indefinitely. At least have them despawn if they've been touched and vacated.

I think people are going to "trip" those low value sites to get rid of them faster. Greed is an excellent incentive to be tidy.


Pretty sure greed is a better incentive to leave the competition sucking on your sloppy seconds, tbh. There aren't a lot of good reasons to care about a site despawning if you're the one who hit it - especially if you're making good use of WHs to cover a lot of ground.

Oh I agree, many will take that approach... but since actually finding new sites that haven't been cherry picked is an issue I think that many will go ahead and pop them so that new (and more valuable) spawns can happen.

This will llkely take place primarily in null where you can control who is working those sites to a large degree.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Desypher Ashborn
The United Federation New Eden
Dark Taboo
#556 - 2013-06-13 00:47:56 UTC
Has anyone noticed a SERIOUSLY REDUCED number of null sec data/relic sites? i flew from Syndicate space through Solitude, at least 35 low sec/null sec hops, and didnt find one relic or data site, and there was virtually no one there whole way.... so dont think they were farmed...


CCP can you look into this? has the %age chance to find in 0.0 or lower been significantly reduced?
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2013-06-13 01:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Moth Eisig
Desypher Ashborn wrote:
Has anyone noticed a SERIOUSLY REDUCED number of null sec data/relic sites? i flew from Syndicate space through Solitude, at least 35 low sec/null sec hops, and didnt find one relic or data site, and there was virtually no one there whole way.... so dont think they were farmed...


CCP can you look into this? has the %age chance to find in 0.0 or lower been significantly reduced?



Same thing happened to me last weekend. I went through about a dozen systems in Syndicate and found exactly one site (which was being used as bait, so I couldn't even run it). I did get a bunch of sites once I got to Solitude though.
Desypher Ashborn
The United Federation New Eden
Dark Taboo
#558 - 2013-06-13 01:32:04 UTC
cool Moth thanks for info
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#559 - 2013-06-13 02:14:51 UTC
Selene Nask wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't see where the ability to hunt (or bait a hunter) in exploration sites is going to be a problem.

Intel tools that afford protection still apply.

But consider that an exploration ship, while lacking in tank and sacrificing DPS for the probe launcher can still run a heavy AB to run off with and even field tackle gear too. I used to run a 100MN AB on a Cyclone with a large nuet just to keep tacklers off. (worked great on sleepers too).


Exploration is coming of age. I have yet to even find a site to test a mini game in, but this only leads me to look forward to getting a chance in the future, perhaps a late night session. Frankly the whole profession of Exploration has never been about the maximization of ISK in such manner that mission running in highsec or incursions or nullsec anoms are. Exploration is about that Lara Croft/Indiana Jones aspect of the game. Yes you might hit it big and haul in some serious ISK for mere minutes of work, or you might work all day at it and get nothing. But since 2009 I always found, along with many who like this play style, that it's all about "the find" as Indiana Jones would say.

If you explore and then at the end of it say " I can bring in more ISK in the same amount of time!" or "I didn't get all the cans because of spew/gankers/mini game" then exploration is not for you. The "Productivity maximization" crowd already has well-established content to earn ISK in. Just think of the scene from "Raider of the Lost Ark" when Doctor Jones was swapping the golden idol for a bag of sand, the look on his face, and what happened next (he was basically blobbed by his rival and ransomed for the loot). Think of that and you will get exploration.

I have done mainly this since 2009 and have a station lock box with so much valuable loot in it I can't keep track and I'd say most of my attempts at exploration are mediocre at best, and having been run off many a nullsec site by NPC and player alike (usually in half structure too).







This is the way that I'm looking at it. I explored a bit before the change. I liked it okay but didn't find it that fun. I like making isk like anyone else but when I play I like to have some fun doing it. I know what I can do if I want to max my isk per hour but balance that with whats enjoyable. I don't play this game with 'max isk' as a goal and I know many people who don't just play for that as well.

Since the change I've found exploration a lot more fun (fun is subjective of course). And for me the search aspect is part of it. Yesterday I explored for a few hours and made diddly squat. In the two days before I hit some big pay sites and pulled in over 500 million in the first two systems I hit. I like the not knowing what a days exploration will bring in. It makes the good days that much better. If I wanted to know I was going to bring in a certain amount of isk for every hour I play I would run things like missions or incursion where the reward is more predictable.

I'm also liking the risk vs reward decisions that need to be made. I jump into a system with a lot of sigs and several people in local. Do I risk it or not? The other day I was busy running a site while being alone in the system. Someone jumped in. I cargo scanned a can a saw two good Bps. Then I saw combat probes so I knew the guy was coming after me. (Now it will be seeing scanner probes or wondering if the person had pre-scanned the system). It then became a race to see if I could hack the can before they appeared. It was a hard can. First attempt failed. Then success and as I was pulling the cans in as fast as I could red appeared on my butt. My ship is fitted with escape in mind and I managed to get two more cans in before getting away. Then a check on the cargo hold. Yes! I got the BPs. The whole thing got my blood pumping. If I hadn't gotten the BPs I would have been bummed but the experience of taking the risk is what I'm after in the game as much as isk.

I like the new hacking game. Yep it's rng but the more I've done it I'm finding it part random, part luck and part skill. It's the same with the loot spew mechanic which I wasn't sure I liked much at first. Yeah sure you can't get everything but I'm finding I'm getting enjoyment from just trying to get the 'good thing' that's in the can and figuring out what I can do better to get more cans. It's less boring. Many of my corp have tried the new system, a few have decided that it's not there thing. For them the risk vs reward balanced with the randomness factor doesn't do it for them. Several are more like me.

I'm liking all the changes (not that it's perfect) so much that yesterday I completely changed my skill plan and short term focus to max out what I need for exploring.





Ah very good. Your experience shows that not all PVP is "Ship A shoots ship B, Ship B shoots back. Repeat until boom". Your survival did NOT depend on tanking or DPS or how many friends you brought. It depended on how fast you can hack.

This is what lowsec and nullsec exploration has been about: stealth, intel, the ability to GTFO when needed, and how fast you can get in and get the job done before all hell comes down on you. And to boot, you are dealing with other players, not predictable rats.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#560 - 2013-06-13 06:44:43 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
The first thing we'll be doing is getting setup to make Utilities something that can be taken out of the systems you are hacking and fitted into the module in advance of going off hacking. Without doing that hackers are really still at the mercy of the board generation when it comes to making choices. It also adds a secondary income for explorers that is linked to exploring and ties the hacking more into EVE. This is really the first thing that has to happen to add more depth to hacking and isn't an insignificant amount of work.

Following on from that initially it's a case of adding more Defense Subsystems and Utilities to support more interesting things happening.

We also want to let players be able to influence the result of the hack more. For example in the exploration sites, heading off and tackling certain nodes would let you influence how the scattering of cans occurs. Further we'd like to increase the granularity in failure as well. This creates more options for any new systems that get introduced using the same mechanics.


If you guys build a full blown roguelike inside of Eve, I will love you forever.


...I might even use tongue.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank