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The destroyer buff

Author
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-06 22:41:33 UTC
Since there doesn't seem to be a thread on this, I'll start one. IMO, the changes currently on SiSi are massively over the top; the new destroyers are so good as to render almost all frigates pointless. This is largely because of the removal of the ROF penalty As it stands on TQ, a thrasher is a credible threat to almost any frigate, t1 or t2; the problem is that the others fall some way short. However, this isn't really for want of (potential) DPS; it's much more to do with a lack of fitting room and, in the case of the catalyst and coercer, slot layout. As it stands, the changes don't address the core issue with the coercer (ships with one mid: still stupid and pointless after all these years) and go way overboard with the other three. The aim should have been to leave the thrasher more or less unchanged and bring the other three up to its level rather than boosting them all some way above it. My fear is that if the SiSi changes go live on TQ, they're going to kill off a lot of the variety in frigate pvp without really having any beneficial effects on diversity in larger fleets.

TL;DR: keep the increased fitting room and sig radius reduction, restore the ROF penalty, give the coercer a second mid.
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#2 - 2011-11-06 23:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
They're destroyers. Their sole purpose for existing is to destroy frigates. So I don't quite get why you're complaining about their newfound ability to actually function in their intended role.

A lone frigate pilot would have to be incredibly stupid to engage a destroyer, as it would mean pretty much certain death. That's the way it ought to be.

As for slot layouts, I don't see it as a problem. Destroyers are support ships, not solopwnmachines (besides the Thrasher) and I imagine we'll be seeing them in fleets alongside ships less able to defend themselves from frigates (such as the new Tier 3 BCs). It doesn't matter that some of them don't have the midslots for tackle - all they need to be able to do is rip apart any frigates that get close to the fleet, and deter any others. Not having the midslots for tackle doesn't really impede this ability.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-11-06 23:39:57 UTC
Yeah it seems the OP is entirely missing the point of Destroyers.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#4 - 2011-11-06 23:40:02 UTC
couldn't agree more. if you are a lone frig and see a destroyer GTFO. Thats a good thing, since frigs are currently a class without a real counter.

destroyers are weak against everything else

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

NOGC BLAST
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-06 23:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: NOGC BLAST
I have to agree with Daedalus Arcova, They have needed some sort of work for a long while, the Thrasher was the only destroyer that could do it's job to any extent before these changes, and even at that it was still only useful in skilled hands.

With this they may see wider use in combat allowing a cheap but useful ship for the newer players, while still allowing skilled frigate pilots to still engaged them in well formed groups.

Besides, the winter update is still a ways away and they may still change things to balance there effectiveness.
The fact is that something needs to be done, and for the past 2 years I have been voting for this matter to be looked at.

Anyway, they have there mind set on some sort of change, we can only wait and see, cause there the ones with the spread sheets LOL.
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-06 23:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jiji Hamin
the other three should be effective as anti-frig gang boats, but i also do agree as a longtime thrasher pilot that the thrasher is just horrifying. however, railgun cormorants/pulse coercers *maybe* will be fun to fly in gangs to **** enemy friggies, post-buffage. imho, dessies should have BIGGER sigs but keep the good fittings and removed RoF. that way, cruisers **** dessies who **** frigs. or:

anything else>destroyers>frigs

HOWEVER, frigs have many other uses other than pewing and as such will be used, making balance continue to be compelling.
Shanlara
Weatherlight Industry
#7 - 2011-11-06 23:59:29 UTC
Can anyone tell the "buffs" to destroyers ? haven't really followed this part of the sisi, and I never really paid attention to destroyed beside the fact they are cool :P
Alsyth
#8 - 2011-11-07 00:15:42 UTC
With their decreased sig and massive dps/EHP buff, they can murder cruisers and some BCs now, that's a bit overpowered in my opinion. An AB thrasher can solo any med-sized gunship if they can orbit close and kill its drones.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#9 - 2011-11-07 00:20:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonaura
At present, in fleets at least, destroyers are pretty pointless, they don't survive long enough in a fleet fight to actually counter things like interceptors. They are basically just used as a stepping stone for new pilots until they get into cruisers.

So fixing them and making them relevant is entirely welcome. I was more excited about this than the new battlecruisers.

However, regarding your initial point, I agree, that it could make life trickier proposition for frigates.

But that is because, personally I feel that Frigates are also far to vulnerable to be relevant in fleets of larger ships. They are either killed by drones or the Zealot pilot who ignores the primary target in his quest for killboard glory (You know who you are Zealot kill mail whores).

While Interceptors are still pretty handy, they too tend to die pretty easily when doing the role they are designed to do - close down range. I mean - an interceptor speeding after a sniping gang is easy prey because it's transversal velocity is nill.

I would like to see the survivability of frigates increased significantly, so they are relevant to the game and fun to fly in mixed fleets. It sort of gets boring to see everyone in abaddon's time after time... or tempests etc... you get the idea.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#10 - 2011-11-07 00:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonaura
Alsyth wrote:
With their decreased sig and massive dps/EHP buff, they can murder cruisers and some BCs now, that's a bit overpowered in my opinion. An AB thrasher can solo any med-sized gunship if they can orbit close and kill its drones.


They are great. But with web on them they die very quickly, and I've found battleships still getting the odd shot on me that took me down to 50% health in one shot, two shots and I was in my pod. I feel if I took them out in a fleet, i'd be lucky to be bringing it back with me. With such a small buffer, they are hardly invincible. as with most things in eve - they are easily countered by the correct fitting. Oh... and drones.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Ivanna Nuke
Atlas Forgotten
#11 - 2011-11-07 02:07:12 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
Yeah it seems the OP is entirely missing the point of Destroyers.


This sums up this whole thread.

Now for space beer.
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#12 - 2011-11-07 04:16:25 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Destroyers are support ships, not solopwnmachines (besides the Thrasher)


If one ship does not fit the ship's class, there is a problem. in this case, yeah, destroyers as a group need buffed. But that needs to happen in a way that doesnt leave everything in space named "thrasher."

Silas
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-07 04:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jiji Hamin
Silas Shaw wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Destroyers are support ships, not solopwnmachines (besides the Thrasher)


If one ship does not fit the ship's class, there is a problem. in this case, yeah, destroyers as a group need buffed. But that needs to happen in a way that doesnt leave everything in space named "thrasher."

Silas



OH GOD I LOVE THE THRASHER SO MUCH. +1 for a winter expansion marketed as being a hybrid-buffing rebalance but actually just making hail and the thrasher both horrifyingly better. fap fap fap

tbh tho, despite this being my take on it... the tornado is just too far. the minmatar epicness train just went too far with that ship. like, this is just getting dumb at this point.

anyway, back on topic
Kami Lincoln
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-11-07 04:32:18 UTC
Alsyth wrote:
With their decreased sig and massive dps/EHP buff, they can murder cruisers and some BCs now, that's a bit overpowered in my opinion. An AB thrasher can solo any med-sized gunship if they can orbit close and kill its drones.


Did you say murder cruisers and some BC's? Well sure, if its a 4 year old veteran taking out a 4 month old noob.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-11-07 04:57:12 UTC
AWWW the tuskers really are the most narrow minded arrogant pathetic little whiners in eve cant adapt so they choose to cry about a long needed buff

As is the destroyers one job is to evaporate frigs if your too pig headed to adapt to this change and fly with a few more people/change your tactics you deserve to die out of eve like the dodo you lot are

ADAPT OR DIE

YOU CHOOSE DIE AND THEN CRY
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#16 - 2011-11-07 05:12:59 UTC
Apparently the SiSi catalyst can be fit for 650DPS at the moment. That is ridiculous and on par with a decently fit BC.

Keep the ROF penalty, or at least part of it and massively boost the tracking to keep these as an anti-frig boat instead of cheap disposable DPS platforms.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-11-07 06:13:41 UTC
Zirse wrote:
Apparently the SiSi catalyst can be fit for 650DPS at the moment. That is ridiculous and on par with a decently fit BC.

Keep the ROF penalty, or at least part of it and massively boost the tracking to keep these as an anti-frig boat instead of cheap disposable DPS platforms.


ok it dose 650dps how much tank dose it have

OH WAIT IT DOSNT HAVE A TANK

quit crying about it you whining babies and just SHOOT IT
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#18 - 2011-11-07 06:20:34 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Zirse wrote:
Apparently the SiSi catalyst can be fit for 650DPS at the moment. That is ridiculous and on par with a decently fit BC.

Keep the ROF penalty, or at least part of it and massively boost the tracking to keep these as an anti-frig boat instead of cheap disposable DPS platforms.


ok it dose 650dps how much tank dose it have

OH WAIT IT DOSNT HAVE A TANK

quit crying about it you whining babies and just SHOOT IT


Gotta agree with this.

The Catalyst is another in a long line of glass cannons put forward by the Gallente. You have to get really damn close to work that DPS out, and Dessies go down pretty darn quick.

Katrina Oniseki

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#19 - 2011-11-07 10:40:00 UTC
Whatever they do it will be great for destroyers which are designed to kill T1 frigates and perhape be on average with Assault frigates...

Whatever buff they get I take it no questions asked!!! I will only ask for ONE thing: Remove a turret from the Thrasher...

Pinky
Sniperdoc
Stargate Kommand
#20 - 2011-11-07 14:28:18 UTC
Alsyth wrote:
With their decreased sig and massive dps/EHP buff, they can murder cruisers and some BCs now, that's a bit overpowered in my opinion. An AB thrasher can solo any med-sized gunship if they can orbit close and kill its drones.


Yes. I found the same. You can actually use a destroyer to solo cruisers now as well. So, a BIT overpowered.
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