Ships & Modules

Is your NPC corp spanking you hard enough???

no T2 ammo in T1 guns. Thats ok.

As I've said many times before:

Faction guns and domination shield hardeners are the *only* cases where T2 > faction.
In EVERY other case, Faction is equal or better in every way except availability/price.

Everything else faction gets you T2 performance or better with less skill requirements, and less fitting requirements.

Faction guns get you:
Less DPS than T2 when using the same ammo
T2 PG fitting requirements
7% less cap use than meta 4

and in the base of blasters:
Less optimal than T2/meta 4


I propose that they be given meta 4 fitting requirements, and Meta 4/T2 base stats (which are basically identical), and:
* Benefit from T2 spec skills
* can load T2 ammo if T2 spec skills are trained
* Larger magazine size for Hybrids and Projectiles, less cap use for Hybrids and lasers



Faction launchers are a bit different, due to CCP being bad at math.
Currently for Meta 0-4 guns:
Optimal range and damge go up by 5%/meta level, while cap use (if applicable) goes down by 5% per meta level
So a meta 4 has 20% more DPS, 20% more optimal, and only uses 80% the cap use.
Most faction guns follow this progression for cap use and damage - ie an 1.25x the damage of meta 0, 0.75x the cap use of meta 0. Optimal is the same*
Faction damage modifiers of 1.25 cannot compete with the spec skill that goes up to 1.1 which brings the T2 damage modifer up to 1.32x the meta 0 damage mod
1.25 < 1.32


Missiles on the other hand get ROF bonuses of 5%, which at high levels become very potent.
Meta 4 has 80% the cycle time of meta 0, as does T2.
However, as the cycle time reduction gets closer to 100, the effect of each % reduction gets greater.
So, while the weapon specs for T2 easily makes up for the 5% bonus to faction DPS, it wouldn't work for missiles as well.
0.8*0.9= 0.72 vs what one would think would be a 0.75x cycle time modifier for faction launchers... a much smaller difference than seen with the guns.
However, for reasons completely unknown to me, they made CN and Guristas launchers have a massive 30% cycle time reduction relative to meta 0, making them out DPS T2 launchers with spec V (assuming the same ammo is used).



CN launchers do a massive 42% more DPS than T1 meta 0, 14.3% more than meta 4
While the lasers, blasers, Fed/serpentis rails do only 25% more DPS than T1 meta 0 and 4.2% more DPS than meta4
Arty does 26.3% more DPS than meta 0, 5.2% more DPS than meta 4
Guristas/ CN rails do the same DPS as meta 4s..


Guristas/CN launchers need to be nerfed, while the other faction guns need a buff - in particular the blasters.



*Exceptions:
Optimal for Faction blasters, in which it gets worse, and CN rails, where the optimal is another 10% better, but damage is only meta 4 levels. Arty doesn't get an additional 5% to the damage modifier, but instead gets 5% better ROF (for 5.3% better DPS)

You should probably get onto CCP to start nerfing every faction mod in the game that isn't a weapon then, because they're all better than T2.

Demand is mainly for the tags needed, and those have demand mainly for the other items that can be obtained with them.

Demand for faction weapons is pretty darn low.

Only if the tags gets grinded...

Mr Habalu,

I am well aware of what the OP is proposing and despite your attempts to "clarify" I still do not agree since I did not misunderstand in the first place.

You train tech 2 specialisations and you gain access to tech 2 modules which have advantages and disadvantages compared to faction/officer modules.

In this particular case we are talking about weapon systems. Faction weapons already offer many advantages such as the training time I already mentioned and also some other things people have pointed out:

fitting cost
cap use for turrets that use cap
optimal range in some cases
raw damage in the case of launchers

If you then add the capability to use tech 2 ammo just because you have trained for it, it turns this game into: whoever is richest AND has the most SP wins.

Tech 2 provides a gold standard in fitting and puts a performance ceiling on most hulls so it can standardise efficiency for ALL players to fight on roughly even terms.

You add tech 2 ammunition capability to faction/officer guns, they will become outright superior instead of now when they are situationally superior.

EVE is about choice, not an endgame. Go play some other theme park mmo if you really need to have the satisfaction of wearing the best gear possible. I did that once, it got boring very quickly.

Also I do not speak for the Uni and the Uni does not control what I say. All these morons making comments about my corp when they disagree with something I post better come up with something fresh to criticise because the "LOL EVE UNI KNOW UR POSTING???" crap is getting old.

If they came down in price by a lot it might be useful to discuss relative merits. They are too expensive to be reasonably used and faction bs where you spend billions to gain very small % gains are not really worth discussing.

Saying that reduced training time as a choice is an advantage really is terrible. You're going to stick around at large weapons level 4 for the privilege of using guns that are x50-100 times more expensive to lose?

I see your point, but I would rather they nerf faction modules like the case you put there instead of seeing faction guns buffed to be able to use t2 ammo.

Tbh some faction guns are pretty much equal (if not practically worse) to reasonably skilled T2 guns even before you look at their price, and sometimes even before you take T2 ammo into account. Nerf can very well will push them below meta4s.