Intergalactic Summit

You have been saying more than that.

Tell me, hon, where did I say "if you obeyed us"? I said if the Federation hadn't antagonized us, unless there's more reason than just what can be seen for why we would launch such an invasion.

And the evidence is in the statements of the Supreme Court, Anslo. They started off by simply saying "Our laws require us to prosecute this individual." But instead of leaving it at that, they chose to continue on with direct insults against the Republic, our Tribal system, and our judicial system.

As far as arrogance deserving death? No, not inherently. It does tend to result in death, though. "Pride comes before a fall."

And no, the antagonism alone doesn't justify the invasion at Colelie. However, a complete lack of antagonis combined with the presence of actual, polite, considerate diplomacy in the refusal of extradition would've gone a long way to preventing the events at Colelie. Regardless, I do not see the Republic as blameless in this situation, and if you see the Federation as blameless in these events, you're blind as a bat. Mistakes have been made on both sides and both sides need to learn from their mistakes.

He didn't, no. He didn't have to. He stated that Broteau killing Midular was different (than Colelie) because she was a tribal leader. He added that the Republic judicial system is different than the Federation. He didn't say anything about justification, but he sure as hell implied it.

In any case, you're right about military actions against another military falling under a different system. Broteau killing Midular (and killing or harming all his other victims) is typically called things like "a terrible tragedy", while military actions against other militaries (especially allied militaries) are typically called "acts of war".

Oh, and please. Don't call me "hon". Especially if you're going to call the next three or four people you attempt to rebut the same thing. It cheapens it.

Both sides screwed up, who screwed up more is hindsight.

Those two fleets should never lock each other.

An RSS fleet moving thru Fed space shouldn't cause a security response.

An RSS fleet shouldn't be moving thru Fed space without co-operative planning.

Federal officials should never say things like "No, you can't have him, because your justice system is a joke" or "You'll just lynch him, because you're a bunch of animals/children/whatever."

We don't accept an alliance based on being someone's child or animal.

We accept an alliance based on equality.

Based on Fed statements, they broke that alliance first (an alliance based on equality) by treating the Republic as an inferior.

While I don't think that justifies an attack, it's a slap in the face, which the incident was kind of a counter-slap.

So great, we slapped each other.

Now what.

Bruteau being extradited is an olive branch from the Federation.

Hence, we owe them also an olive branch.

My 2 isk

I apologize for the "hon," it's a habit that comes with age.

As for his comments, I disagree that he implied. You certainly inferred it, but I do not agree that he was implying it.

As for "acts of war," that is something for diplomats to deal with and acts of war don't necessitate going to war or even the dissolution of alliances. Also, until the reasons of the Council are known, we can't know whether or not it really was justified.

Not really. I don't like the Federation, as an ally or otherwise; but would the Republic be better off without them as an ally? Right now, sadly, probably not. Though we are much stronger and more capable of independence now than we have been in the past, we need allies in case the Amarr Empire decides to launch a full reclaiming/invasion against us, and I don't trust the Amarr not to invade if we end up with no allies.

What I would prefer is either for the Federation to get their heads out of their asses and stop being condescending pricks (something they are to everyone, not just the Republic) or for us to find an ally that has an easier time understanding our culture and won't just dismiss it as "primitive" and "savage."

And, quite frankly, Shintoko, even if the events at Colelie are completely unjustified and a massive mistake on the part of the Tribal Council, the negative behavior of the Republic towards the Federation is still far exceeded by decades of negative behavior towards the Republic by the Federation. And if you think an alliance should be broken off because of one mistake, you'd best never apply to become a diplomat, for the Federation or any corporation or alliance you're in. Not to mention that by that reasoning, the Republic should've broken off the alliance decades ago.

Now, if the Federation actually learned to live by the policy it tries to force onto everyone else, and exhibited true tolerance and understanding of cultural diversity rather than pretending tolerance and treating other cultures as quaint little sideshows to be dismissed whenever that culture is inconvenient to the Federation...

I agree that some kind of gesture is required on the part of the Republic (although unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath). Nor am I going to argue that there isn't some fault on both sides.

I feel obligated to point out, though, that if a reasonable and rational approach to a 'slap' in the form of some ill-judged racist remarks and military chest beating is a 'slap' in the form of opening up with the artillery, causing a massive incident and increasing the overall death count from this sorry mess around a thousandfold...

...well, no offence, but I'm rather glad that we're not allies. I'm sure that there's going to be more than a few voices in the Federation demanding heads (probably metaphorical) for that idea. 'Reasonable escalation' is not a word that can be applied here. Although frankly, the blame really lies with whatever imbecile thought that sending a battlefleet in in the first place was a sane and clever idea.

Now I'll await with baited breath the storm of eager denunciation for being an Imperial who dares to voice an opinion...

Can we bring examples to the table of a century's worth of mistreatment towards the Republic by the Gallente, preferably on the scale of an unlawful border incursion, and taking in mind the trillions invested into economic development by Federation-based corporations and the massive volume of aid.?

Also, I am unsure as to why Minmatar pilots here are playing the victim considering the Sanmatar was equally derisive of the Gallentean justice system.

Are you trying to argue that the Republic was justified in attacking the Federation because Shakor's feelings were hurt? I don't exactly have a high regard for the man, but that's a bit much for even me to accept.

So when are you going to give up on this rather tired ploy, Shintoko? How many times do I have to remind you that I have repeatedly said that none of this has anything to do with justification of Colelie.

Also, even if I were saying such a thing, it would have nothing to do with Shakor's feelings individually, but that of the Matari as a whole.




How about the fact that ever since we regained our freedom, the Federation has tried to use its influence as our "rescuers" and "supporters/allies" to convince us to drop the traditions we were finally able to resume practice of after so many centuries of slavery because they're "primitive" and "barbaric" by your supposedly enlightened principles? You've also tried to force your precious democratic system on us despite the fact that, at least without some major reworking and modification, it doesn't really work with our tribal culture? But of course you guys think we should just do away with our tribal culture, our heritage that the Amarr tried to take from us and stamp out, that we fought so hard to be able to have back. You want us to just throw that away.