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EVE Online: Odyssey Feedback

First post
Author
Galmas
13.
Enigma Project
#601 - 2013-06-09 20:50:40 UTC
Two things would be really useful:

1. an indicator that the overlay scan is set to continuous mode (e.g. make the scan button green when it is in that mode)

2. two separate windows for the probe scan window and the directional scanner

Regards
Gal
Maul555
Xen Investments
Xen Combine
#602 - 2013-06-09 21:09:05 UTC
I am also getting a solid black screen with the UI over it upon undocking from stations about %20 of the time. Docking and then undocking again usually fixes it.

Photon Ceray
Palmyra Universal Enterprise
#603 - 2013-06-09 21:28:19 UTC
New Jump Effect:

it's a small thing but immersion breaking IMHO, every time I jump the tunnel is blue, even when the environment in the origin system and destination system are both greenish/golden, why is the tunnel blue? it just doesn't fit!

I know it's easier said than dont, but as I said, this is immersion breaking. Please try to make it so that it takes the colors of the origin and destination into account. the best would be if the beginning of the tunnel takes the colors of the origin and transitions into the colors of the destination!
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#604 - 2013-06-09 22:15:42 UTC
Overall all looks great and I am trying the exploration career, however there is something I do not understand:

- The Training Container is never found in any of the data sites I have explored. Is this an overview configuration issue or something else? I see a lot of proofs of discovery available for sale on the market, so it must be that someone manages to retrieve them before me. Just pointing out that something could be broken or that the system is being exploited. In fact I can't complete the agent mission unless I purchase the proof of discovery from the market.

Other feedback:

- The jump effect is unrealistic. Why a tunnel of clouds? It would have made more sense a warp effect like those in the science fiction movies, e.g. stars compress and become like lines, maybe for a very short time

- I love the auto alignment when you click on a destination, good job Big smile

- The ability to disable some of the visual effects would be welcome

Kind regards,
Ubat
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#605 - 2013-06-09 22:17:27 UTC
And I would like to add that the jump cloud tunnel a couple of times did not show up at all, the screen was just plain dark.
Niob Bardieu
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#606 - 2013-06-09 22:25:06 UTC
Fon SaiHoc wrote:
Only a small group chooses exploration and there is a reason for that. This patch takes all the reasons away. The miners and ratters and mission runners will become "explorers" and the real explorers will find another way to enjoy the game... or quit.

Fon SaiHoc wrote:
"Yay, i just finished cleaning a site i didnt have to make any effort to get to... and it tells me automatically which sites i can go to now! I dont even need to press a button! yay! It would be awesome if auto-pilot would do the rest as well :) I would just undock and press auto-pilot... yay!" I cant contain my sarcasm...


I like your sarcasm, since along with your other posting about the new probing system you bring up a topic that might otherwise be easily overseen. I'm talking about what is one of the strengths of Eve, its ability to provide special niches for different types of players. This post will also be my feedback to the changed exploring mechanics in Odyssey.

Looking back at the old exploring game, it was mostly a game of patience. It took a lot of patience to learn how to use and how to efficiently handle the complicated probing interface. Additionally the probing itself took some patience since it was a rather time consuming activity as well and you didn't even know beforehand if there were interesting sites in a system. Depending on what sites you probed for you had to clear the more or less challenging NPC's guarding the data and relic containers or rush through the combat sites to get to the final room before anyone else finds the site either to compete with you (high sec) or to shoot you (lower sec). After that the sites were finally done and you had only to open the loot containers and get your chance-based reward. And of course better didn't forget your probes when leaving system :)

The new exploring is completely different, it is now a game for the impatient. The sites are instantly visible as soon as you enter a system and the list gets updated automatically. With their position being known and the new probe launching mechanics they are a lot faster to scan. Combat sites didn't changed besides the fact that you are forced to rush even more through the sites because of more competition. Data and relic sites now don't have any NPC's in them, instead they are defended by a chance based mini game that has to be beaten through excessive clicking to get to the actual looting. The looting itself has become another mini game where you have to hover your mouse over tiny loot containers to get their description, click on the right ones to get them to your cargo and hope you don't miss any important ones before they all vanish. By the way, don't mind about your probes, they magically return to your cargo when leaving the system.

In summary, for the old exploring game you needed a lot of patience for the probing, had to be able to do some PvE combat and got rewarded. As for the new exploring, patience as requirement is gone, data and relic sites now instead require the ability to click through a promising looking but actually mindless mini game, after that have very good reactions and mouse clicking skills or a good portion of frustration tolerance when you somehow missed the best loot and it blows up in space.

Considering the fact that Eve encourages players to find their niche in the game, the former explorers most probably now have lost theirs and have to either find a new niche that rewards their patience, change their playstyle or just quit the game. If exploring stays the same as it is now, they will eventually get replaced by a new kind of explorer who wants instant success and doesn't mind about senseless clicking because it's a good warm-up for the following action game that he likes most about exploring.

Anytime when a change in Eve hits there seem to be some people complaining in the forums that CCP ruined their playstyle, even if it's only a change to a specific ship. In such cases I don't really see why players aren't able to get into a different ship if that suits their playstyle better. In the case of the changes to the exploring mechanics complaining about the ruination of a playstyle seems a lot more legitimate, for the above reasons.
Oraac Ensor
#607 - 2013-06-09 23:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Overall all looks great and I am trying the exploration career, however there is something I do not understand:

- The Training Container is never found in any of the data sites I have explored. Is this an overview configuration issue or something else? I see a lot of proofs of discovery available for sale on the market, so it must be that someone manages to retrieve them before me. Just pointing out that something could be broken or that the system is being exploited. In fact I can't complete the agent mission unless I purchase the proof of discovery from the market.

I believe it needs Mission Container checked in overview settings - can't suggest anything else.
Oraac Ensor
#608 - 2013-06-09 23:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Niob Bardieu wrote:
Fon SaiHoc wrote:
Only a small group chooses exploration and there is a reason for that. This patch takes all the reasons away. The miners and ratters and mission runners will become "explorers" and the real explorers will find another way to enjoy the game... or quit.

Fon SaiHoc wrote:
"Yay, i just finished cleaning a site i didnt have to make any effort to get to... and it tells me automatically which sites i can go to now! I dont even need to press a button! yay! It would be awesome if auto-pilot would do the rest as well :) I would just undock and press auto-pilot... yay!" I cant contain my sarcasm...


I like your sarcasm, since along with your other posting about the new probing system you bring up a topic that might otherwise be easily overseen. I'm talking about what is one of the strengths of Eve, its ability to provide special niches for different types of players. This post will also be my feedback to the changed exploring mechanics in Odyssey.

Looking back at the old exploring game, it was mostly a game of patience. It took a lot of patience to learn how to use and how to efficiently handle the complicated probing interface. Additionally the probing itself took some patience since it was a rather time consuming activity as well and you didn't even know beforehand if there were interesting sites in a system. Depending on what sites you probed for you had to clear the more or less challenging NPC's guarding the data and relic containers or rush through the combat sites to get to the final room before anyone else finds the site either to compete with you (high sec) or to shoot you (lower sec). After that the sites were finally done and you had only to open the loot containers and get your chance-based reward. And of course better didn't forget your probes when leaving system :)

The new exploring is completely different, it is now a game for the impatient. The sites are instantly visible as soon as you enter a system and the list gets updated automatically. With their position being known and the new probe launching mechanics they are a lot faster to scan. Combat sites didn't changed besides the fact that you are forced to rush even more through the sites because of more competition. Data and relic sites now don't have any NPC's in them, instead they are defended by a chance based mini game that has to be beaten through excessive clicking to get to the actual looting. The looting itself has become another mini game where you have to hover your mouse over tiny loot containers to get their description, click on the right ones to get them to your cargo and hope you don't miss any important ones before they all vanish. By the way, don't mind about your probes, they magically return to your cargo when leaving the system.

In summary, for the old exploring game you needed a lot of patience for the probing, had to be able to do some PvE combat and got rewarded. As for the new exploring, patience as requirement is gone, data and relic sites now instead require the ability to click through a promising looking but actually mindless mini game, after that have very good reactions and mouse clicking skills or a good portion of frustration tolerance when you somehow missed the best loot and it blows up in space.

Considering the fact that Eve encourages players to find their niche in the game, the former explorers most probably now have lost theirs and have to either find a new niche that rewards their patience, change their playstyle or just quit the game. If exploring stays the same as it is now, they will eventually get replaced by a new kind of explorer who wants instant success and doesn't mind about senseless clicking because it's a good warm-up for the following action game that he likes most about exploring.

Anytime when a change in Eve hits there seem to be some people complaining in the forums that CCP ruined their playstyle, even if it's only a change to a specific ship. In such cases I don't really see why players aren't able to get into a different ship if that suits their playstyle better. In the case of the changes to the exploring mechanics complaining about the ruination of a playstyle seems a lot more legitimate, for the above reasons.

Another excellent critique of the utter folly of the new "exploration" mechanics.

Exploration? What exploration? I see none in the new system.
Maul555
Xen Investments
Xen Combine
#609 - 2013-06-09 23:48:44 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
And I would like to add that the jump cloud tunnel a couple of times did not show up at all, the screen was just plain dark.



Ditto on that... And also I would like to say that the stargate jump tunnel animation needs more work... Tone it down and make it more realistic.
Fon SaiHoc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#610 - 2013-06-10 00:07:27 UTC
Niob Bardieu wrote:
Fon SaiHoc wrote:
Only a small group chooses exploration and there is a reason for that. This patch takes all the reasons away. The miners and ratters and mission runners will become "explorers" and the real explorers will find another way to enjoy the game... or quit.

Fon SaiHoc wrote:
"Yay, i just finished cleaning a site i didnt have to make any effort to get to... and it tells me automatically which sites i can go to now! I dont even need to press a button! yay! It would be awesome if auto-pilot would do the rest as well :) I would just undock and press auto-pilot... yay!" I cant contain my sarcasm...


I like your sarcasm, since along with your other posting about the new probing system you bring up a topic that might otherwise be easily overseen. I'm talking about what is one of the strengths of Eve, its ability to provide special niches for different types of players. This post will also be my feedback to the changed exploring mechanics in Odyssey.

....

Anytime when a change in Eve hits there seem to be some people complaining in the forums that CCP ruined their playstyle, even if it's only a change to a specific ship. In such cases I don't really see why players aren't able to get into a different ship if that suits their playstyle better. In the case of the changes to the exploring mechanics complaining about the ruination of a playstyle seems a lot more legitimate, for the above reasons.



Thank you.

We see our friend eve player Ubat saying on this thread she is going to try exploration career now, and one could ask her, why just now? why not before?

She would reply with all that we explorers have heard so many times: Its too hard, i never get lucky, i never find anything besides wormholes.

She wont reply, i am not able to persevere, i like easy things, i like to only do things for sure, i cant develop much effort.

Nothing against our fellow eve player or anyone else, simply things are as they are.

There is nothing wrong with how she is and what she expects from the game, the same way there is nothing wrong with how we ( explorers ) are and what we expect from the game.

My friend mission runners always expressed envy regarding my findings, but as i wrote in another thread, i would link a vigilant BPC and they would ask where i got it, thinking they would go to that system and get to some spot where they press a button and it appears in their cargo.

They cant grasp the joy of scanning in an area of 15 systems minimum everyday and after 300 DED 4/10 rated complexes have collected 19 vigilant bpcs.

They can only grasp this, "go this place, do this and get this reward".

I wrote some time ago on this forum that exploration its the opposite of mission running.
Now all the mission runners are going to try what they think its exploration, but exploration is not that.
Exploration was taken from the game.

Exploration is what mission runners could never do and never will be able to, because exploration its not about skill books, its about personal profile.
Oddisey has no exploration, they took exploration away to put something else instead, something for mission runners and miners do afkish, the same way they run missions and mine afkish.

EVE becomes a game of ghosts, people who are logged in while watching a movie or some show on tv.

I dont think this happened by chance, i think its a question of numbers, we true explorers are just a few.

So whatever you do in EVE, tomorrow some other people "Interests" might go against yours, and they might have larger numbers... and now you know what happens...

So all mission runners, tomorrow EVE might be just about PVP with no agents and missions... to all PVPers, tomorrow EVE might be just about missions, like WOW, with no PVP at all... its all about numbers.

The CSMs dont come to this thread, they dont assume any responsibility on this because they are just lazy babies, trying to get the power and sucess they cant achieve in RL ( for some reason? ) except the psycopath one who thinks EVE its is the way for him to get invited to become a super strategist at CIA.

We, true explorers at heart are leaving EVE online, not because "we want them to pay" but because EVE cant give us what we need, not anymore.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#611 - 2013-06-10 05:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
The amount of mini-profession sites that gets spawned and the amount of loot they drop seems to have been drastically increased. I guess it's there to provide people with something to do and/or as a kneejerk reaction to bad players complaining about the reduced income with the loot spew, but it has also turned the sites increasingly not worth doing anymore. Instead of providing a nice steady income and a real alternative to the combat sites, they're becoming more like the old relic sites. As in trash/newbie trap sites, that any explorer looking to make a living ignores as soon as the type gets revealed. Just saying if the intention was to keep them as an attractive site to do in all areas of space, the loot can't be handed out like candy.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#612 - 2013-06-10 07:10:15 UTC
So tonight I experienced another aspect of the new continuous damage alarm: hull damage. Whist chatting with friends and not paying proper attention, I received about 4 percent hull dmg before I managed to warp off. Well my ship threw a fit. It started flashing and howling like a wounded animal screeching out this horrid sound that reminded me of a cross between a tornado alarm and a tsunami warning. What the hell?

So I docked to grab some cap boosters and rep outside the station. To my disbelief, even once I had 100 percent shields and 100 percent armor, that 4 percent hull damage was enough to keep the tsunami warning going nonstop. I was in possession of 98 percent of my total ehp! There's definately an issue here. First, a player should have the option to fly around with that 4 percent hull dmg if they choose to do so without being coerced into repairing it by the game. And second, this endless barrage of noise begins at low shields. At low shields, I still have 100 percent armor. I armor tank so that means I'm A-OK. There's just no need for a damage alarm until it's time to be alarmed. When a player has full armor and 98 percent of their total ehp is not that time.

Honestly, I've been thinking about it all day and I can't even figure out how a feature like "continuous damage alarms" even made it past the concept phase. Who sat around and thought: "You know what would be great? Continuous Alarms!! Wow, you're right! That sounds awesome!" It just boggles my mind. The two words together form one of the most annoying phrases known to mankind. CCP should take this further and market obnoxious alarm clocks that never go silent. When you hit the snooze button, the alarm gets even louder and you receive an electric shock. The only way to turn it off is to throw it out a window.

Put it on the white board. I think there's potential here.

YK
Oraac Ensor
#613 - 2013-06-10 07:12:50 UTC
Photon Ceray wrote:
New Jump Effect:

it's a small thing but immersion breaking IMHO, every time I jump the tunnel is blue, even when the environment in the origin system and destination system are both greenish/golden, why is the tunnel blue? it just doesn't fit!

I know it's easier said than dont, but as I said, this is immersion breaking. Please try to make it so that it takes the colors of the origin and destination into account. the best would be if the beginning of the tunnel takes the colors of the origin and transitions into the colors of the destination!

I'm assuming that blue is the colour of the energy field which forms the tunnel.

If you pay attention the exit opening is visible at the far end of the tunnel, growing ever larger as you progress, and through it you can see a portion of the space you are travelling towards, correctly rendered in its true colours. All very cleverly done in my opinion and not the least bit immersion breaking - quite the opposite in fact.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#614 - 2013-06-10 10:10:06 UTC
About Exploration.

I think it is important that people continue to press for what they feel gives EVE it's edge over the infantile offerings of other games out there. Exploration was difficult. And the skills to do it and enjoy it were personal and not entirly from in-game skill books and SP. As people have said above - it was patience and knowledge.

The new system is good. It offers a lower bar to entry. Which in and of iteslf is a good thing. The minigames are here and can be expanded upon. . But we will get used to them. Lots of things can be reduced to a mini game. Planetary Interaction as an example and that has value. Even applying paste and managing heat could be considered a mini game. They we will get used to. What I feel has happened is that "Exploration" and that relating to it has been made more approachable by moving the whole niche closer to easy - rather than introducing something that bridged the gap.

I was dissapointed by the removal of the Deep Space probes. I felt that removing them burnt a bridge.

What I would propose for Exploration, moving forward, would be for some classes of sites to not show up on the overview. Hidden or Cloaked sites in effect. Ones that are a fair way out of the system. The overveiw visible site could be considered the core sites - but if a Probe-only set of sites could be added to the game. . . . If configured correctly with the right balance of reward and difficulty. . might staisfy our needs. This is my hope anyway. It might address some of the worries of WSpace miners too.

I don't think it would be too difficult to put these hidden sites in? What do you think?
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#615 - 2013-06-10 10:26:39 UTC
I'd also like to add that it is important for me that there are parts of the game that I know are hardcore and niche - that even though I might only dabble from time to time - and be rubbish at myself. . . It is important that I know they exist to keep me enticed by the whole.

For example - If I know or just beleive I can do everything to the higest level - even though I don't do it - so it feels that there's nothing left to work towards in my head. . . That might make me lose interest - even though if the hard to do things are things I don't ever do - the knowledge that they are there for me one day and that other people are doing them now - keeps my enthralled. This is true - and odd.

Or am I just strange? - But I like knowing that there are extremely difficult things going on in EVE like old fashioned exploration - even though I mightn't be bothered to do them seriously myself. This is probably why I continue to run LVL4s and do some losec PI week after week.
Dawne Xi
3D Salvage and Acquisitions
#616 - 2013-06-10 12:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dawne Xi
Dawne Xi wrote:
Eette wrote:
Having the camera zoom in and spin on gate/wormhole jumps makes me motion sick. Why not allow us to turn this off? Also the sounds for jumping a gate are way to loud!


Yes please let us disable or somehow do without the swiveling effect on this, I just finished a 17 jump run and at the end of it, I had to go lay down for a little while because I was nauseous. I was reading some stuff on the test forum feedback thread, so CCP was made aware that this was a problem. Give us some option to not have to watch the camera swivel around and center on the stargate. The warp tunnel is fine, it's the camera pan that's the problem.


This problem hasn't changed, I haven't gotten used to it. Right now, I have the market window nearly fullscreen and I just fly with it open so I can block this animation sequence and keep from getting motion sick. CCP don't think that this is no longer a problem and we just needed some time to get used to it. After searching through the test forum feedback I saw several people there posting the same thing. Way to go CCP ignoring test forum feedback :))
Dumas Athos
World Curling Team
#617 - 2013-06-10 13:39:06 UTC
I like most of the changes. I have a couple of gripes, one of which Fon has done an excellent job od describing.


After exploring dozens of systems since the release, I've got to say all the complaints about the scanner seeing hidden sites with no effort is a bad idea. I now know when I can skip a system and which ones I should drop probes in. I like that anoms come up automatically; we never needed probes for them anyway. I would appreciate not allowing sigs to show with no effort on the part of the explorer.

I also like the minigame a lot and even the loot spew to a degree. What I would like to see is setting up the spewed containers on the overview or not having them expire so quickly. I have trouble seeing them when they're so densely packed.

Otherwise, good expansion.
Phext
SIGBUS
#618 - 2013-06-10 13:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Phext
Dawne Xi wrote:
The warp tunnel is fine, it's the camera pan that's the problem.


Just like to add that the warp tunnel entering and exiting sequence may also part of the problem. The rubber band effect or whatever it is called.

Dawne Xi wrote:
This problem hasn't changed, I haven't gotten used to it. Right now, I have the market window nearly fullscreen and I just fly with it open so I can block this animation sequence and keep from getting motion sick.


This.

:wq!

Monti Python
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#619 - 2013-06-10 16:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Monti Python
Would you pleeeease add an option to choose to turn off such things as:
  • the radial menu (I really hate this one). I can't tell you how many times I've docked when I've gone to pan the screen with my mouse.
  • the gate effects and esp the moving of my camera for that (and no 'C' doesn't change that)
  • the scanner overview

and if you can't put the undock back the bottom of the neocom, at least give me a shortcut for 'Undock'.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#620 - 2013-06-10 17:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Too many pages to read.

I feel sorry for the Dev's, both for having to read through the endless posting of the same issues that's bugging the playerbase and for passing off this exploration contraction as an expansion.

Bottom line = WTF have you done to EVE? Where's the Commitment To Excellence?

The past few expansions have been rushed out with complete disregard to constructive negative feedback. You have successfully alienated a sh*t-ton of veteran players while constantly trying to coerce new players into the game. Making everything accessible to players on day 1 is complete utter madness. That only leads to failure when there isn't any older players around to give positive encouragement. Changing things just for the sake of making a change is not good, especially when it already works great.

I definitely don't like the path this game has taken over the past couple of years. Each new expansion is turning this game into Grief Online.


DMC