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End character sales and transfers of confirmed botting characters
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XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#1 - 2011-11-06 19:19:11 UTC
As it stands now if a character has been confirmed as a botter by CCP they get a slap on the wrist and a temp ban that can number days to a few weeks at best. Even after the fact CCP's current stance is that the player would learn their lesson and stop said behavior, this could not be any further from the truth. When a botter gets a ban it's time to simply sell the character and buy a new one which renders any punishment null.

I propose that when a character is banned due to a botting violation that character is immediately stripped of the ability to be transferred to another account permanently. This leaves said botter with a single option, RMT the character off as a loss. At this point the only thing CCP would need to do is watch the IP of any account that has been banned for botting, if it logs in with a new IP address within a justifiable time frame of the offense say a year have the account auto banned. End result is botters are stuck with an offending character, and no one will dare buy an RMT bot character or RMT character in general for fear of an instant ban.

There are a lot of simple steps that can be taken to make botting in this game much less lucrative. Please take them CCP.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2011-11-06 19:25:59 UTC
Force them to wear a hat-of-shame in their avatar photo! Lol

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XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#3 - 2011-11-06 19:27:42 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Force them to wear a hat-of-shame in their avatar photo! Lol


+1 Hat of shame, that made me smile :D

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-06 19:49:50 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Force them to wear a hat-of-shame in their avatar photo! Lol


and make them sit in the corner?

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
bornaa
GRiD.
#5 - 2011-11-06 19:54:18 UTC
close the door of their CQ so that they cant get out -> that would be jail... oh... wait...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#6 - 2011-11-06 19:59:30 UTC
XIRUSPHERE wrote:

At this point the only thing CCP would need to do is watch the IP of any account that has been banned for botting, if it logs in with a new IP address within a justifiable time frame of the offense say a year have the account auto banned.



You are aware that lots of ISPs hand out variable IPs? Also, there are people like me who have multiple ISPs...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
seany1212
M Y S T
#7 - 2011-11-06 20:03:20 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
XIRUSPHERE wrote:

At this point the only thing CCP would need to do is watch the IP of any account that has been banned for botting, if it logs in with a new IP address within a justifiable time frame of the offense say a year have the account auto banned.



You are aware that lots of ISPs hand out variable IPs? Also, there are people like me who have multiple ISPs...


THIS, so much this, you beat me too it. Also, a better solution to botters? ban them in the first place, no 'ban them for a little bit' but the problem is CCP doesnt have the time or resources to obtain enough evidence that would confirm botters, therefore can't permaban them from the first offence, its a ****** circle and it means there will be botters for many years to come not to mention i think CCP actually enjoys the way they regulate the market Evil
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-11-06 20:12:42 UTC
Funniest CCP rule ever:

"when you see an account you think has been recycled, petition it."

The botting rules are the second funniest rules

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2011-11-06 20:24:28 UTC
When CCP hands out a ban, its against the account and any other accounts owned by the player that CCP is aware of. The "strike" is also against the botting account. Selling the character will not remove a strike. Also buying a character from a botting account will not result in the buyer getting a strike.

CCP Sreegs has said this in so many posts, I'm sure hes sick of repeating himself. However, it would be nice to hear from him how the war on bots is going (hint hint).

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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-11-06 20:25:57 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
When CCP hands out a ban, its against the account and any other accounts owned by the player that CCP is aware of. The "strike" is also against the botting account. Selling the character will not remove a strike. Also buying a character from a botting account will not result in the buyer getting a strike.

CCP Sreegs has said this in so many posts, I'm sure hes sick of repeating himself. However, it would be nice to hear from him how the war on bots is going (hint hint).


Well yes, however creating an new account is not an big problem. As well as creating an new e-mail.
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-11-06 20:30:33 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
XIRUSPHERE wrote:

At this point the only thing CCP would need to do is watch the IP of any account that has been banned for botting, if it logs in with a new IP address within a justifiable time frame of the offense say a year have the account auto banned.



You are aware that lots of ISPs hand out variable IPs? Also, there are people like me who have multiple ISPs...


Lies, obviously the poster knows the truth about the internet: It's a series of tubes.
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-06 20:38:08 UTC
Tear Miner wrote:
Lies, obviously the poster knows the truth about the internet: It's a series of tubes.


OK lets play along...its a series of tubes....with dynamic IP addresses being used by most ISP's who have the tubes plumbed to their servers.

Tubes or no-tubes...It changes nothing.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#13 - 2011-11-06 22:23:06 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Also buying a character from a botting account will not result in the buyer getting a strike.


I believe thats the point of the OP, CCP is allowing botters to "clean" their dirty characters by reselling them.

If botters where banned from selling their toons then it would add more financial risk.
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-11-06 22:32:50 UTC
How about...no?

Stuff Goes here
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-11-06 22:35:37 UTC
characters that were banned for botting should be flagged and made impossible to transfer.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Hyacinthous
Starlight Industries .co
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#16 - 2011-11-06 22:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hyacinthous
Botters should have their physical hardware MAC recorded, and only their specific IP banned, not the entire hostname (which would mess with anyone who had an IP of that string not just the banned person). Using the MAC and the very specific IP String the person uses you can ban their connection until they figure out how to get back on (with a different IP or otherwise) but it will still stop them.

Confirmed bot characters should be completely deleted with no remorse, I don't care what people think about bots they are bad and they take a spot some other real person should be filling and its killing this game. Destroy All Bots.
Most noticeable is the fact that bots inflate the in-game economy more than they should giving the false sense of a huge economy when the fact remains that if the economy was truly player based it wouldn't be being ran and supplied by bots right now and it would be much smaller and probably feature vastly different price scales.

As far as I am concerned Any third party programs that alters or abuses the game in any way (any game) that give advantages to people that other player can't get, is voiding the persons "contract" to play the game by violating the rules/policies. I don't know CCPs specific policies on this but if I were them I would enforce a much more stringent method of removing people that get unfair advantages, because that is the point of gaming - giving everyone a level playing field and letting them have at it.

However I think they care more about the revenue than the actual metagame. That's exactly why people can currently Pay to Win in full force, you're rich? You can buy trillions of isk, all the isk you want - where as no one in game can do that in any ingame methods that are logical or sane. Unless you are 'insane' enough to consider grinding a level 4 mission for a week 'sane' which still only makes several hundred millions or a bill.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-11-06 22:44:13 UTC
Hyacinthous wrote:
Botters should have their physical hardware MAC recorded, and only their specific IP banned, not the entire hostname (which would mess with anyone who had an IP of that string not just the banned person). Using the MAC and the very specific IP String the person uses you can ban their connection until they figure out how to get back on (with a different IP or otherwise) but it will still stop them.

Confirmed bot characters should be completely deleted with no remorse, I don't care what people think about bots they are bad and they take a spot some other real person should be filling and its killing this game. Destroy All Bots.

As far as I am concerned Any third party programs that alter or abuse the game in any way (any game) that give advantages to people that other player can't get, is voiding the persons "contract" to play the game by violating the rules/policies. I don't know CCPs specific policies on this but if I were them I would enforce a much more stringent method of removing people that get unfair advantages, because that is the point of gaming - giving everyone a level playing field and letting them have at it.

However I think they care more about the revenue than the actual metagame. That's exactly why people can currently Pay to Win in full force, you're rich? You can buy trillions of isk, all the isk you want - where as no one in game can do that in any ingame methods that are logical or sane. Unless you are 'insane' enough to consider grinding a level 4 mission for a week 'sane' which still only makes several hundred millions or a bill.


Most NAT routers allow you to mask the physical address with an arbitrary one, same with most NICs. MAC address authentication is extremely weak.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hyacinthous
Starlight Industries .co
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#18 - 2011-11-06 22:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hyacinthous
Andski wrote:
Hyacinthous wrote:
Botters should have their physical hardware MAC recorded, and only their specific IP banned, not the entire hostname (which would mess with anyone who had an IP of that string not just the banned person). Using the MAC and the very specific IP String the person uses you can ban their connection until they figure out how to get back on (with a different IP or otherwise) but it will still stop them.

Confirmed bot characters should be completely deleted with no remorse, I don't care what people think about bots they are bad and they take a spot some other real person should be filling and its killing this game. Destroy All Bots.

As far as I am concerned Any third party programs that alter or abuse the game in any way (any game) that give advantages to people that other player can't get, is voiding the persons "contract" to play the game by violating the rules/policies. I don't know CCPs specific policies on this but if I were them I would enforce a much more stringent method of removing people that get unfair advantages, because that is the point of gaming - giving everyone a level playing field and letting them have at it.

However I think they care more about the revenue than the actual metagame. That's exactly why people can currently Pay to Win in full force, you're rich? You can buy trillions of isk, all the isk you want - where as no one in game can do that in any ingame methods that are logical or sane. Unless you are 'insane' enough to consider grinding a level 4 mission for a week 'sane' which still only makes several hundred millions or a bill.


Most NAT routers allow you to mask the physical address with an arbitrary one, same with most NICs. MAC address authentication is extremely weak.


This is true, but it would stop the person shortly (And most less-technically inclined people aren't even able to change the default passwords of their routers, let alone mess with more advanced settings) and when they logged back on, if they were involved with botting then their botting characters would be gone anyway. I don't see why anyone would defend something that is giving others unfair advantages and destroying the game at the same time, it's poison.

To me it's equivalent to using aimbots in FirstPersonShooters, it's always been a sin and it shows that the people who use programs to play games for them are subhuman and lack the skill or ability to do it them damn selves.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#19 - 2011-11-06 23:54:48 UTC
[quote=Hyacinthous
This is true, but it would stop the person shortly (And most less-technically inclined people aren't even able to change the default passwords of their routers, let alone mess with more advanced settings) and when they logged back on, if they were involved with botting then their botting characters would be gone anyway. I don't see why anyone would defend something that is giving others unfair advantages and destroying the game at the same time, it's poison.[/quote]

Botters will always find a new way to 'game the system'; my IP address is masked by my router automatically, so I'm (relatively) anonymous (I say 'relatively' because the only way to be one-hundred-percent secure on the Internet is to avoid connecting to it in the first place).

It's an 'arms race', of sorts -- in the end, all anyone can do is play catch-up.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-11-07 01:00:29 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

It's an 'arms race', of sorts -- in the end, all anyone can do is play catch-up.

what do you mean of sorts? information technology security is an arms race. the people on the offensive are constantly finding new holes into people computers/networks, and the security experts and code monkeys are left to play catch up as quickly as possible.
and it's the same with botting, look at how capchas have advanced. and the ones we have are getting cracked already because of people finding more creative ways to read that. and it's the same with any system they would put in place to catch botters in eve. it will be overcome in the name of making isk/money.
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