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What potential problems do you see in a Hisec Cyno?

Author
Bloody Wench
#1 - 2011-11-06 15:58:58 UTC

Bugger all things could use them. Black Ops and Jump Freighters...anything else?

I can't think of a reason not to have cynos available to jump freighters in hisec.

Ofcourse they would still disallow jumping of things that aren't supposed to be in hisec.


What problems do you see if such a thing existed?

Does moving stuff around more quickly really count as a bad thing?

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack

Assaj Ventress
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-11-06 16:06:43 UTC
You answered your own question)
Less opportunities for people to gank JFs makes it a bad idea
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-06 16:12:50 UTC
Wait null/low sec'ers are wanting to carebear their precious goods in and out of high sec?!? No this can't be, you are from null/low and therefore are elite peevvvveee players and can defend your jump freighters.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2011-11-06 16:16:04 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
I can't think of a reason not to have cynos available to jump freighters in hisec.
Being able to completely bypass the dangerous bits is a pretty significant reason not to allow it.
Quote:
Does moving stuff around more quickly really count as a bad thing?
Yes. It's quick enough as it is. Making it quicker isn't a good thing. Making it safer isn't really all that good either. Both at once is downright bad.
bornaa
GRiD.
#5 - 2011-11-06 16:20:12 UTC
if you ask me i would nerf JF and not buff it...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-06 16:37:12 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:

snipped

Does moving stuff around more quickly really count as a bad thing?


Yes. It's a great thing when you need to move stuff yourself, but instant teleportation in general isn't really a good thing for the game. It's used for two basic things, avoiding trouble and effort for yourself while trying to drop trouble on someone elses shoulders.

The first one is a problem, since it removes a lot of the potential interactions between players and makes logistics effortless. This means there are less interesting things hapening in space and differences between different parts of space are reduced. Again good for the person doing it, but makes the game a lot less interesting, more homogenized and reduces the options available for an enterprising entrepreneur.

The second is a problem, since it allows people from a wide area to instantly react to threats within a wide area and pile up on them without worry. Scouting becomes sort of pointless when any ship can potentially teleport hundreds of ships to their location. Blockades are pointless, if ships can just jump past the camp. Committing to a fight is very risky, since those empty next door systems are no indication, that the enemy can't get instant reinforcements. It also somewhat reduces the point of fleet mobility and relying more on smaller ships, since teleporting will always be the fastest way to travel. The best part of all this is ofcourse, that while it's available to all, the bigger and more established you are, the more you benefit from this.

Not all of this applies to highsec cynos, but I'd still rather keep it a cyno free zone with it's own unique ecosystem and environment. If you want your fast travel, you can jump to a lowsec system near your destination and slowboat from there to your destination. At least then there is potential risk attached to your teleporting, so there is at least some risk/reward calculations you have to make.
mkint
#7 - 2011-11-06 16:57:10 UTC
This is another one of those bad ideas that rookies propose every now and then. Last time it was specifically restricted to "covops cyno."

The reasons why rookies propose these ideas is because they think it will give them an advantage. It wouldn't. It would make your life hell. Case in point, imagine your WT's using a neutral scout to drop a big 'ol pile of bombers on you when you would otherwise think you're completely safe. You're fairly new, you don't have black ops, portals, covops cyno skill, or a big 'ol pile of bomber friends. And even if you did, you are not the aggressor and wouldn't have targets inexperienced enough to make themselves vulnerable to a bomber drop.

Also, there's the economic reasons. If making a couple billion isk was just a matter of JF to jita, soon all markets would be completely homogenized, making EVE a worse place, not better.

There are no advantages. Only disadvantages.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#8 - 2011-11-06 17:13:02 UTC
Here's the solution ..

Allow both cyno types everywhere.
Supers can never enter low-sec.
Capitals in high-sec cannot activate any mods or dock at any station.

My precious low-sec is free from prevailing blobs, cross-cluster logistics remains intact and JF's get a bit of risk attached.
mkint
#9 - 2011-11-06 17:21:46 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Here's the solution ..

Allow both cyno types everywhere.
Supers can never enter low-sec.
Capitals in high-sec cannot activate any mods or dock at any station.

My precious low-sec is free from prevailing blobs, cross-cluster logistics remains intact and JF's get a bit of risk attached.

JFs have almost no risk jumping around in low/null. The only point of risk is getting back to highsec. Removing that would be stupid. Carriers having completely invulnerable highsec shortcuts is also stupid. Carrier travel (ship hauling) is arguably too quick, safe, and easy already.

Allowing cynos everywhere has no good points. Just stuff that looks good to rookies.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

David Grogan
NerdHerd
#10 - 2011-11-06 17:48:59 UTC
it wouldn't be so bad if they had to jump to an npc controlled cyno beacon... moar tears and privateers could camp those all day.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Bane Loppknow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-06 19:12:03 UTC
Another detriment to this is the established lore. Capital ships are perfectly capable of entering high-Sec. There is no magic field that keeps them out. Note the destruction of the Yulai Station, and the various NPC capital ships scattered throughout high-sec.

As far as the lore is concerned, the only thing keeping capital ships from entering high-sec is the jamming of Cynosural fields, and their inability to use stargates. If either mechanism should be brought down, suddenly you have fleets of dreds dropping in to say hello, like Yulai.
pussnheels
Viziam
#12 - 2011-11-06 19:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
Tippia wrote:
Bloody Wench wrote:
I can't think of a reason not to have cynos available to jump freighters in hisec.
Being able to completely bypass the dangerous bits is a pretty significant reason not to allow it.
Quote:
Does moving stuff around more quickly really count as a bad thing?
Yes. It's quick enough as it is. Making it quicker isn't a good thing. Making it safer isn't really all that good either. Both at once is downright bad.


Doesn't agtrr with tippia often but now i do

besides can you imagine all the cyno s going off around jita 4-4

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Pharago
Nughat Corp
#13 - 2011-11-06 19:52:52 UTC
This is something that really bothers me, artificially dumbing down the capabilities of ships depending on their current location.

In this case, my opinion is that cynos should be allowed in high sec.

Most of the arguments I've read against it deal with JF or carriers getting a safer route for free.

While those arguments are not invalid, in the case of JF is not that there aren't any other venues to achive a similar result, after all a normal freighter can carry ~4 times more cargo in a single run.

Concerning carriers, well, any carrier can jump over highsec in 2 jumps without seeing a single soul, there are places in low that are always empty and deserted, perfect for solo dualbox travel.

If anything, the current situation makes jump capable ships a commodity to be really apreciated only in low/nullsec, while wasting the huge potencial they could bring to empire commerce.

Their use in any part of new eden could end the apparent isolation of market hubs, and raise market competitiveness.

As you can see I've said nothing about warfare, but really, what's the problem? a bunch of noobs jumping in dreads? seriusly?
Lexmana
#14 - 2011-11-06 20:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Pharago wrote:
a normal freighter can carry ~4 times more cargo in a single run.


But they are still using gates and can be ganked right?

Quote:
If anything, the current situation makes jump capable ships a commodity to be really apreciated only in low/nullsec, while wasting the huge potencial they could bring to empire commerce.

Their use in any part of new eden could end the apparent isolation of market hubs


And why would that be a good thing?

mkint wrote:
If making a couple billion isk was just a matter of JF to jita, soon all markets would be completely homogenized, making EVE a worse place, not better..


This ^^.
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#15 - 2011-11-06 20:31:43 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

But they are still using gates and can be ganked right?


I didn't know JFs were undestructible, interdiction is not impossible.

Lexmana wrote:

And why would that be a good thing?


It would make a healthier economy and remove a big time sink from the game... going to jita to buy/sell. Is easier if a seller moves something around, than a hundred potential buyers going in circles looking for the best price, no wonder jita is overcrowded, you don't have to think much about where to go for stuff, its always in the same place. It's no wonder the area surrounding jita is so overpopulated.

If moving goods wasn't such a pain in the ass, sellers would spread them across new eden more easily, and thus people would have better access to what they desire.
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#16 - 2011-11-06 20:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pharago
mkint wrote:
If making a couple billion isk was just a matter of JF to jita, soon all markets would be completely homogenized, making EVE a worse place, not better..


That would mean more people doing the same, ok, but it will also mean more competitiviness -> lower prices -> look for new markets -> everybody wants a JF -> more market opportunities for ship builders -> easier access to resources for everybody -> more free time to actually build your game, instead of setting autopilot to jita, arriving half an hour later, looking at all the wannabe sharks camping the lanes.

It's not that is not already safe to travel if you know how, so I think it's just dumb to remove a big part of the game mechanics arbitrarily from highsec because, just because.
Lexmana
#17 - 2011-11-06 20:47:19 UTC
Why not just make one global market (auction house) and have a (jump) portal in each station that takes us there in an instant.
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#18 - 2011-11-06 20:51:55 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Why not just make one global market (auction house) and have a (jump) portal in each station that takes us there in an instant.


It's not the same going 4 jumps to buy something than to have to make 20.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#19 - 2011-11-06 20:57:25 UTC
Sure, let's also remove those highsecs between racial space which were created after the fact when EVE had a smaller population. What's the point of FW between factions if you can just waltz between their space easily?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#20 - 2011-11-06 20:57:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Being able to completely bypass the dangerous bits is a pretty significant reason not to allow it.



Paying 5 billion or so for a ship should allow you to bypass some dangerous bits once in a while. Not saying you should be able to pay to remove your risk completely - there should always be a bit of risk, but there should be a lot less risk in high sec. That's why it's high sec.
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