Ships & Modules

makes me want to train laz0rs and amarr BS :(

better learn energy management skills too, cap injectors needed to shoot the lazors now

I have 2 CCC rigs and 3 Cap Recharger IIs, and I still can only fire my guns and run one Large Armor Repairer II (+ hardeners) with my guns for about 4 minutes. One LAR is not enough tank, especially if I were to remove an armor rig. That is only repairing about 170 HP per second. Good luck surviving any missions with that pathetic of a tank. Before Odyssey, I was able to run those modules for about 13 minutes, which is more than enough to take out enough DPS to occasionally pulse the Armor Rep.

It's to the point where its just not worth using my Apoc. I just use my Maelstrom even on missions where EM/Therm resistance and damage are preferred.

i dont like the new model but the new bonuses are very good for pvp, pve not so much but if you pve you have better ships than the apoc anyway

i think the apoc WAS the easiest because it was extremly easy on cap even for low skilled players and the optimal bonus was quite handy with no T2 ammo
for new players now i think a beam abaddon would be better

What do you think is the Navy Apoc a better ship than the Armageddon Navy for pve...i dont have much expirience with lev. 4 missions and i realy need a little help to decide...

Given good skills the navy armageddon is better suited to doing L4 missions featuring NPCs other than rogue drone, Sansha, or Blood Raiders. The 125mb means it can pack 5 heavy drones for Angels and 5 sentry drones for virtually everything else, especially Guristas NPCs which are at least as bad for laser boats as Angel rats are. With its range and tracking bonus the navy armageddon is likely equal to or superior to the navy armageddon for L4s with laser-weak NPCs and lower-leveled missions with a lot of sub-BC sized ships. The navy armageddon's drone-based damage, especially if you fitt a couple of omni links, can be a sizable equalizer considering how much better sentry drone tracking is than most large turret tracking.

As for cap stability on the standard apocalypse, I don't much really care. If you have enough cap to run your tank non-stop and you have enough tank to keep your ship alive while you snipe out the smaller ships with your lasers and let your drones whittle down the rest you're good. Fitting an AB to help keep the range open from battleships also helps in this by letting you speed/range tank as well.

[Apocalypse, Test]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

That, due to the faction AB and Core LAR, is probably a tad pricey for new players, but in the long run it only increases the cost of the ship by about 100% which, compared to some other setups, is downright dirt cheap. The only drawback is that it's over on the CPU budget, but a faction CR2 and/or some faction heat sinks fix that issue right up, and in the case of the CR2 they don't significantly increase the final price tag.

Regarding debate on what ship is the most "noob friendly," I've always said it's the abaddon. Yes, running the tank and guns at the same time really sucks (capacitor), but the tanking bonus and the fact that it has (or at least had) the highest CPU and power grid output were the key points. It was the easiest ship for new players to fit stuff onto, and when starting L4s new players really should favor tank, even excessive amounts of tank, over gank until they get used to both battleships and the missions. With 5 unbonused T2 light drones many new players could clear out a sizable chunk of all missions, and the NPCs that can't be (quickly) killed with just those drones can be shot down one or two at a time when you have the capacitor to fire your lasers.

In comparison the apocalypse had somewhat more anemic fitting abilities (even now it has less CPU than the abaddon), did less damage at shorter ranges despite the optimal range bonus given comparable fittings (which is to say +1 heat sink on the apocalypse, +1 tracking enhancer on the abaddon) when using shorter-ranged crystals, and had a weaker tank to boot. The primary advantages it had were more applied DPS at extreme ranges thanks to the optimal bonus and scorch and the ability to fire its lasers more often while the tank was running.

Due to the tracking bonus and the nerf to tracking enhancers the apocalypse now has a clear range superiority to the abaddon, but it lost the "shoot while tanking" advantage it had making it a something of a neutral change at best and a further shift towards the apocalypse being more suited to players with mid-grade skills.

/shrugs. Different people look at the game differently of course, but when I consider what ship is or isn't good for low-skilled players I do my best to remember all the stuff I did, good and bad, when I was starting out and had weak skills. A lot of posters on the forum don't seem to do that and instead look at the problem through lenses tainted with all of their experience. From my point of view, in terms of level of character skills needed to fly the ship decently, they scale something like:
Abaddon
(Navy) Apocalypse
(Navy) Armageddon

Bear in mind that I rank them like that because of the drone factor in both variants of the armageddon. Given that standard armageddons likely work best with missiles or projectile guns, if one decides to use them in PvE, instead of lasers one could make a case for ranking the standard armageddon after the navy variant in terms of skill requirements due to how divergent missile or projectile training can be for many Amarr pilots.

I have been testing Apoc ever since it hit singularity and I love it. Massive deeps, nice speed and can sport a ok tank. I will say this though...train those cap skills cause your going to need them.

E: I'm speaking from a pvp perspective

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my cap rigged Armageddon now that it's not useful as cap stable beam platform.

Has anyone tried the new apocalypse ina tachyon sniping setup yet? I imagine the tracking bonus would make it nice amd lethal. Perhaps even give some sort of role for gleam crystals...