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Is it just me that Feels this Was a Half done Balance? T2 ships, T3 ships, and pirate faction

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Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-05 18:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
ITs just wierd... or is it just me that Feels this Was a Half done Balance.
Now I know its not the end of this balance....but I just wonder how long they will leave things like this.

What do you guys feel they need to balance buff or nerf next? and do you feel the balance has made a few ships in need of love since alot of ships were buffed?

There are alot of things i dont understand why they did what they did.

Is it just me or is the Navy Vexor now better than a Myrm minus having the repping bonus. I just feel now alot of people will stop flying the myrm and just fly Nexors. CCP really made a mess for them selves. The navy battle cruisers are now getting close to Commandship strength minus bonus to boosts and the require a fraction of the skils to fly. Me I have all my skills maxed I feel the strenght of my slepnir is now not really worth the extra 60+ days of trainning new players will need to do, for not much more power than regular BCs and deferently not the new navy BCs like that brutix.

The navy cruisers are better or comparable to thier Hac counter parts. I dunno about you but choice between a navy vexor or an ishtar ill choose the nexor. And the Myrm is def out of the running. ANd that Navy Agragor has 100+ ehp tank with 500+ dps un heated with 2 spare highslot, kinda makes the Zealot not as tasty

Why buy an Astarte when i can fly a Navy brutix..... im all kinds of confused.

The now they deff need to BuFF and balance, T2 ships T3s, and pirate faction ships and the t2 battle ships. Its just a little less cool when a hyperion does almost as much as your kronos or a geddon( with torps + neuts + drops) is a better ship than your bhalgorn. just all kinds of confusing.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-05 18:50:18 UTC
T2 ships haven't been balanced yet, they're getting to them, starting with command ships and HACs.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-06-05 18:56:23 UTC
hope they do the pirate faction cruisers and bs aswell. soo it isnt just me other people feel this way as well.
people are complain about now eve being harder to play for newbies but really right now all the newbies have good access to ships that a as good if not better as the t2 versions.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-06-05 18:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Well, for one, they aren't done balancing all of this yet. HACs are probably getting buffed a bit.


Two, the vexor navy issue is half again as expensive as the myrm, with significantly less tank, cap, and fitting room. It also only has two turrets, to the myrm's five, so the dps gap isn't even that large. Versus the Ishtar, it lacks the massive drone bay (200 vs 375), the massive T2 resist bonus, some cap regen, 10km natural targeting range, and the ability to fit a significant shield tank. Granted, the gap in these two is closer than the VNI and myrm, and the ishtar is quite a bit more expensive, but I do expect that we'll see these get buffed with the rest of the HACs ate some point. They haven't justified their cost in quite a while.


Three, the navy brutix doesn't hold a candle to the astarte. It has fewer turrets and weaker gun bonuses (falloff>tracking), no rep bonus(FWIW), significantly less PG to work with, no T2 resist bonus, and atm still costs as much or more.


Four, they actually nerfed the hyperion's DPS...it used to be identical to the kronos. It still lacks a TON of features compared to the Kronos. Same with the geddon...it's a dangerous neuting ship, yes, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the bhaal.



edit: As for the pirate cruisers, a few of them neede buffs even before this (*cough*phantasm*cough*) , but the working ones still handily outclass their navy counterparts. The navy exeq is scary, but the vigilant is even more so.

thhief ghabmoef
Neutron Pixie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-05 18:59:51 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
T2 ships haven't been balanced yet, they're getting to them, starting with command ships and HACs.

QFE, Also I imagine they will need to look at the state issue ships as they aren't in line with navy any more. Command ships are tech 2 and as such provide additional bonuses. Honestly why fly a hurricane navy issue when you could fly a sleipnir and get the super sweet fall of and damage buff? Not to mention the ability to easily boost with the slot layout. 60 days for min / maxing in eve is nothing.
Neutron Pixie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-05 19:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Neutron Pixie
double post please delete, "we were ganked, going to counter attack once we properly out number them."
Mathrin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-06-05 19:08:01 UTC
Neutron Pixie wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
T2 ships haven't been balanced yet, they're getting to them, starting with command ships and HACs.

QFE, Also I imagine they will need to look at the state issue ships as they aren't in line with navy any more. Command ships are tech 2 and as such provide additional bonuses. Honestly why fly a hurricane navy issue when you could fly a sleipnir and get the super sweet fall of and damage buff? Not to mention the ability to easily boost with the slot layout. 60 days for min / maxing in eve is nothing.


I would image when the rebalance command ship the combat bonus go away or get nerfed
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-05 19:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Well, for one, they aren't done balancing all of this yet. HACs are probably getting buffed a bit.


Two, the vexor navy issue is half again as expensive as the myrm, with significantly less tank, cap, and fitting room. It also only has two turrets, to the myrm's five, so the dps gap isn't even that large. Versus the Ishtar, it lacks the massive drone bay (200 vs 375), the massive T2 resist bonus, some cap regen, 10km natural targeting range, and the ability to fit a significant shield tank. Granted, the gap in these two is closer than the VNI and myrm, and the ishtar is quite a bit more expensive, but I do expect that we'll see these get buffed with the rest of the HACs ate some point. They haven't justified their cost in quite a while.


Three, the navy brutix doesn't hold a candle to the astarte. It has fewer turrets and weaker gun bonuses (falloff>tracking), no rep bonus(FWIW), significantly less PG to work with, no T2 resist bonus, and atm still costs as much or more.


Four, they actually nerfed the hyperion's DPS...it used to be identical to the kronos. It still lacks a TON of features compared to the Kronos. Same with the geddon...it's a dangerous neuting ship, yes, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the bhaal.



edit: As for the pirate cruisers, a few of them neede buffs even before this (*cough*phantasm*cough*) , but the working ones still handily outclass their navy counterparts. The navy exeq is scary, but the vigilant is even more so.



Your not getting the point of my thread. yes i do exagerate a bit. but you do see what ièm trying to say. the gap between alot of t1 and t2 ships has become alot closer. and as for the hyperion it added and extra low slot and more heavy drones... add extra mag stab 10% bonus to damge with stacking penalties + drones, its close. now the hyperion has less guns same if not better dps with less cap issues and more options.

The geddon, though it is not a bhalgorn. it is only 120mil vs 1bil isk... (with torps + neuts + lots of drones, 7highs and 7 lows) its raining on the bhalgorns parade just a little.

you got to admitt the price of a Nexor vs what it can do makes it pretty taste compared to a ishar/myrm/ even a domi..... yes the ishtar has bigger drone bay, but the Nevor gets bonuses to drone tracking and velocity... it frees up mid slots.. alot of possibilities.

The navy brutix is close the the astarte if you consider price and trainning required. its alot of is and skils for gains that dont see enough to be worth it.

Again I have 105mil sp and can fly all these ships and I feel the t2s HACS, Commandships, and pirate ships are really not what they were before being it totally different classes from thier navy and t1 counter parts


For the skills required for command ships.. they should buff them a bit dps wise, atleast buff the combat commandships..

Yes a slepnir is way better than a navy hurrcane.. I just dont like how the closed the gaps a bit.. especially when these ships take 4months + and alot more isk to get into.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-06-05 21:47:25 UTC
double post
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-06-05 23:40:06 UTC
I hope to shed some light on questions concerning future ship balancing.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63563/1/Flowchart.jpg

Source: A DEV made the flow chart.

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Haulie Berry
#11 - 2013-06-06 00:20:15 UTC
Baren wrote:
ITs just wierd... or is it just me that Feels this Was a Half done Balance




Yes. You are the only player left who has not figured out they are balancing the ships in phases.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#12 - 2013-06-06 01:03:09 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
I hope to shed some light on questions concerning future ship balancing.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63563/1/Flowchart.jpg

Source: A DEV made the flow chart.


QFT

Everyone whining just needs to calm down and realize that CCP is in fact working on balancing and now that they are done with t1 ships they will do t2 and the faction they haven't done already.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-06 01:04:53 UTC
Mathrin wrote:
I would image when the rebalance command ship the combat bonus go away or get nerfed

Uh...no.

The devs have said they want to make all the command ships viable for combat, like the field command ships are now.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#14 - 2013-06-06 02:42:24 UTC
I'm really hoping the buff the Nighthawk massively, it's just pathetic now. Really interested to see what they do with the Fleet command ships to make them viable, my guess is that the Vulture will become an upgraded Ferox, Eos will get the 125mbit bandwith it deserves, Claymore will probably become an active shield missile boat similar to the Cyclone and Damnation is the only one which is good as it is, though it will probably get some additional combat prowess through slots or bonuses.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-06-06 15:53:02 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Mathrin wrote:
I would image when the rebalance command ship the combat bonus go away or get nerfed

Uh...no.

The devs have said they want to make all the command ships viable for combat, like the field command ships are now.


That is true they are actually thinking of making it so off grid boosting doesnt work soo they ships will need to be on grid and ready to fight.

I just hope they do this rebalance soon.

There is no denying that ues t2s and t3s are still more powerfull but that Gap has closed and we could say for some that despite the extra resist that gap is gone.. especially when the t2 might be 100mil more.

I just liked the old ways of thinking. where a t1 didnt over power anyone, a t2 was OP compared to a t1 and a T3 is OP compared to a t2. its simple. makes sense and things are good that way.. I dont like the whole make everything equal idea. then things just get boring becuase CCP doesnt want noobs getting owned by 5+ year old players in their fancy ships
Secktar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-06-06 16:07:53 UTC
Feels a little homogenised, yes.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-06 17:12:25 UTC
Baren wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Mathrin wrote:
I would image when the rebalance command ship the combat bonus go away or get nerfed

Uh...no.

The devs have said they want to make all the command ships viable for combat, like the field command ships are now.


That is true they are actually thinking of making it so off grid boosting doesnt work soo they ships will need to be on grid and ready to fight.

I just hope they do this rebalance soon.

There is no denying that ues t2s and t3s are still more powerfull but that Gap has closed and we could say for some that despite the extra resist that gap is gone.. especially when the t2 might be 100mil more.

I just liked the old ways of thinking. where a t1 didnt over power anyone, a t2 was OP compared to a t1 and a T3 is OP compared to a t2. its simple. makes sense and things are good that way.. I dont like the whole make everything equal idea. then things just get boring becuase CCP doesnt want noobs getting owned by 5+ year old players in their fancy ships


T2 is supposed to be better at it's niche but not as good at everything as T1. T3 is supposed to be a better at everything. They can't rebalance everuthing at the same time so we have to wait. In the mean time, use the ebst you have available and let them do thier job. Talking about current T2 vs T1 balance is silly since they are planned to be re-balanced anyway.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-06 17:28:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Baren wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Mathrin wrote:
I would image when the rebalance command ship the combat bonus go away or get nerfed

Uh...no.

The devs have said they want to make all the command ships viable for combat, like the field command ships are now.


That is true they are actually thinking of making it so off grid boosting doesnt work soo they ships will need to be on grid and ready to fight.

I just hope they do this rebalance soon.

There is no denying that ues t2s and t3s are still more powerfull but that Gap has closed and we could say for some that despite the extra resist that gap is gone.. especially when the t2 might be 100mil more.

I just liked the old ways of thinking. where a t1 didnt over power anyone, a t2 was OP compared to a t1 and a T3 is OP compared to a t2. its simple. makes sense and things are good that way.. I dont like the whole make everything equal idea. then things just get boring becuase CCP doesnt want noobs getting owned by 5+ year old players in their fancy ships


T2 is supposed to be better at it's niche but not as good at everything as T1. T3 is supposed to be a better at everything. They can't rebalance everuthing at the same time so we have to wait. In the mean time, use the ebst you have available and let them do thier job. Talking about current T2 vs T1 balance is silly since they are planned to be re-balanced anyway.



Agreed T2 should be alot better than a t1 at its niche. HAC for DP and combat, Recon For ewar ect.... but T3s should just be better ingeneral
Marsan
#19 - 2013-06-06 17:50:13 UTC
Baren wrote:

Your not getting the point of my thread. yes i do exagerate a bit. but you do see what ièm trying to say. the gap between alot of t1 and t2 ships has become alot closer. and as for the hyperion it added and extra low slot and more heavy drones... add extra mag stab 10% bonus to damge with stacking penalties + drones, its close. now the hyperion has less guns same if not better dps with less cap issues and more options.


You aren't wrong in thinking that the gap between t1 and t2 is getting smaller. Various devs have stated not to expect massive boosts to the tech 2 ships. The tech 2 ships will be better in their area, but not to a massive degree. Tech 2 ships will be a lot more expensive for more modest gains. Don't expect the same gap there was before Tiercide. Obvious some ships like HACs, and BOps will either be getting massive buffs, or completely redone only because they were sucking before the rebalance.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-06-06 18:18:19 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Baren wrote:

Your not getting the point of my thread. yes i do exagerate a bit. but you do see what ièm trying to say. the gap between alot of t1 and t2 ships has become alot closer. and as for the hyperion it added and extra low slot and more heavy drones... add extra mag stab 10% bonus to damge with stacking penalties + drones, its close. now the hyperion has less guns same if not better dps with less cap issues and more options.


You aren't wrong in thinking that the gap between t1 and t2 is getting smaller. Various devs have stated not to expect massive boosts to the tech 2 ships. The tech 2 ships will be better in their area, but not to a massive degree. Tech 2 ships will be a lot more expensive for more modest gains. Don't expect the same gap there was before Tiercide. Obvious some ships like HACs, and BOps will either be getting massive buffs, or completely redone only because they were sucking before the rebalance.


Its a sad time in eve in the future

the fact that me trainning skills for and extra amount of years or months will only give me a slight boost and alot more isk spent.

Were is the incentive for us Vet who have 8+ years.... all our time and extra isk gives us a Modest advantage..

Its just soo sad that they are turning eve into a big melting pot... we skill sp matters less and less
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