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What Eve has taught me - what has it taught you?

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#61 - 2013-06-05 09:39:26 UTC
Klandi wrote:

What has Eve taught you?
People complain


This

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#62 - 2013-06-05 09:44:21 UTC
...My existence basically proves you wrong. Been here for 4 years. Find most players burden me down, and joining a group makes me as weak as the weakest member. I fly solo, exploring lowsec and nullsec, and doing 1v1 in FW. I get good fights whenever I feel like it, and fly pretty damn well. I'm constantly improving, and although my access to information isn't as good as a member of a PvP group, I'm still good enough to give good fights and do pretty damn well for a solo pilot.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Amuntis
Cayman Island
#63 - 2013-06-05 09:45:03 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Just quit the damn game. Jesus.


Thank you for your input - name is Klandi - Jesus is my alt :)



Worst co-pilot ever.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#64 - 2013-06-05 10:03:16 UTC
Garresh wrote:
...My existence basically proves you wrong. Been here for 4 years. Find most players burden me down, and joining a group makes me as weak as the weakest member. I fly solo, exploring lowsec and nullsec, and doing 1v1 in FW. I get good fights whenever I feel like it, and fly pretty damn well. I'm constantly improving, and although my access to information isn't as good as a member of a PvP group, I'm still good enough to give good fights and do pretty damn well for a solo pilot.


Garresh - your existence is an exception rather than the rule. What you haven't said is how you fund your playing experience. When you lose a ship and/or need to sell off a shiney drop - where do you go?

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#65 - 2013-06-05 10:11:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low
A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec



You analysis is a little hyperbolic, but yeah, it is a major balance issue. The CSM is aware of it. CCP is aware of it. It's being discussed and worked on.

Please don't leave, because we need people to contribute to the discussion and players who will want to live in null when there's something to do other than smoosh red pluses.


Thank you for posting Malcanis, I will agree that my summation is overly simplistic but not so much of an exaggeration. I know that the CSM both now and previously have knowledge of this aspect of Eve and I cannot see how it can be overcome personally - but this road is not paved with quick fixes. The game will evolve as CCP wants it to and this may/may not be sorted.

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2013-06-05 10:20:27 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low
A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec



You analysis is a little hyperbolic, but yeah, it is a major balance issue. The CSM is aware of it. CCP is aware of it. It's being discussed and worked on.

Please don't leave, because we need people to contribute to the discussion and players who will want to live in null when there's something to do other than smoosh red pluses.

There won't be real game improvement without new content.
By this i don't mean let's go pew in the next system.
Nope, content does not mean gate jump graphics. Or shiny animation for probes.
A old fresh painted thing remains a old thing.
We are aware of this.
You are aware of this.
CCP too.
And then what? I agree you guys from the CSM will discuss it with CCP. Then discuss it again. Then rediscuss. And so on. And? Something will happen? Nope. One can't steal my chicken and give it to the neighbour to force me to steal it back. Not forever. And no way i buy this as new content. And on this OP is right, sometimes this is enuf to make people leave.
***
And now all will yell at me:
But, but...they gave us new moon goo. Nope, they did not. Not for real. They kinda divided the old. Get different names. And all eve did buy it. New goo? New goo should mean different final items.
Content? Content should mean amazing things. Not just the amazing way i did press for the 100k+1 time F1.
It's doable? Yes, for shure it is.
It's convenable? Well...this is pending.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2013-06-05 10:35:20 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low
A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec



You analysis is a little hyperbolic, but yeah, it is a major balance issue. The CSM is aware of it. CCP is aware of it. It's being discussed and worked on.

Please don't leave, because we need people to contribute to the discussion and players who will want to live in null when there's something to do other than smoosh red pluses.


Thank you for posting Malcanis, I will agree that my summation is overly simplistic but not so much of an exaggeration. I know that the CSM both now and previously have knowledge of this aspect of Eve and I cannot see how it can be overcome personally - but this road is not paved with quick fixes. The game will evolve as CCP wants it to and this may/may not be sorted.




Highlighted for emphasis. It's not the kind of issue that can be solved quickly. Ship balance is a piece of cake in comparison because you can literally hard code balance in, but economic/playstyle balance is not amenable to such fixes.


And even if the Game Design Fairy blessed CCP with the perfect solution tomorrow, the effects would still take months, maybe even years to work through. It would still be harmful, maybe even fatal to implement all the changes instantly. The order that changes are implemented matters. The way the changes are communicated matters. Making sure that there aren't gaping economic holes left wide open (remember when PI was introduced, and the POS mod reporocessing thing that's STILL distorting the PI market?) and so on and on.

tl;dr: this **** is really difficult and complicated.

Mistakes are gonna get made. People are gonna get ~mad. But the problem isn't being ignored.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kacer Xenro
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-06-05 10:45:17 UTC
I've learned that i need to play a game with moderation; if i spend 20 hours a week playing eve, then i'll burn myself out.

If i only play 2-3 hours every now and then i can still get a lot done, and i wont burn myself out.

Things i consider fun?

-unknown space and everything therein
-Pissing off highsec nubbins
-Pissing off miners and carebears in null, low and high.
-Helping newbies out, with tips, isk and ships.
-Shooting innocents.

I'm a nice player with a wide evil streak in me, if people begin swearing and cussing at me while they're clearly at a disadvantage i'll kill their silly asses and hope they learned their lesson.

Eve is as fun as you make it, but if you overdo it, as with anything, it quickly becomes boring.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2013-06-05 10:46:07 UTC
Mr. Malcanis,this is more than generic. We all know that changes do take time. Sadly, i fail to see the changes. Adjusting, blabla...this does not rly matter. Fozzy is not my saviour. Neither this game's saviour.
Ironically, like RL, you can't handle large numbers of ppl by economic considerents only. Because this all it's a game, wich works as long people are willing to play it.
Might be the romans were the last smart rulers in this world?
Blood&Bread.
Mistakes were made? Ofc. But the answer we get reminds me of a very famous FC yelling with bad accent: "You don't talk back to -A-!".
flakeys
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-06-05 10:49:38 UTC
Klandi wrote:

What has Eve taught you?



One day is hell the next day is heaven.





You can achieve a LOT on your own.A few of the most rich and famous in eve have done this on their own.Offcourse there is a differnce between doing it on your own and being a complete soloer with no human interaction , but then without human interaction what would this game be worth?


Goodfights you talk about is blobfests , the goodfights actually are the solo ones.The rare 1vs1 , yes you gotta look but they are still out there.And prepare for that 1vs1 becoming a 5vs1 ....

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Swordfingers
The Swollen Horse Society
#71 - 2013-06-05 10:59:38 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
Klandi wrote:
What has Eve taught you?

EVE has taught me that if you actually believe what you posted, you never actually played EVE.


Pray tell us pubbies how the Eve experience differs for you and how you make your money


I don't know about him, but I work in RL. Doing a job I quite enjoy and use part of the money so I can enjoy the fun aspects of the game instead of just doing repetitive and menial tasks in game, just so I can do said repetitive and menial tasks for another month (which, to my surprise, seems to be quite a shocking thought for many people around here).

or to put it differently: If you can't afford to play the game, then ******* don't.
THC Trader
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-06-05 11:06:38 UTC
Use a carrier or one of the many other options to safely move your blueprints and other **** to nullsec. If you had even the slightest clue about how economics work, you would realize that there is far more demand for PvP ships in nullsec, and most of the nullbears don't exactly enjoy going 30+ jumps to jita. So you can charge a premium for the convenience of being able to get the ships in their home system. You are clueless. You fail at this game. If anything, there is not enough risk involved. Mine in nullsec. Produce t1 hulls that match your nullsec alliance's fleet doctrine. Purchase any t2 mods you can't produce yourself from jita, ship them to null. Salvage other people's sites, and buy some rig bpos to make rigs to complement the modules and t1 hulls you are providing. You can make a massive amount of profit doing this. Anyone who has half a clue about the market knows that jita is one of the worst places to try and pull a profit. Competition always drives the price down.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#73 - 2013-06-05 11:09:18 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So if you want to build, why do you care where you build it. Of course the areas of highest population will support a manufacturing infrastructure.

I'd be willing to bet if you REALLY wanted, you could find people and build up your own nullsec manufacturing and market hub somewhere. Jita wasn't built in a day either.

And no, you can make loads of isk outside of HS. I haven't made any isk in HS in probably 2 years.


Outside of highsec you lose exponentially more than you make, that is an iron rule of eve.


This ridiculous statement has won you my pitty. I hope it means something warm to you. CoolCool
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#74 - 2013-06-05 11:13:26 UTC
Swordfingers wrote:
I don't know about him, but I work in RL. Doing a job I quite enjoy and use part of the money so I can enjoy the fun aspects of the game instead of just doing repetitive and menial tasks in game, just so I can do said repetitive and menial tasks for another month (which, to my surprise, seems to be quite a shocking thought for many people around here).

or to put it differently: If you can't afford to play the game, then ******* don't.


I have highlited the part that is wrong. If you replace the word "month" with the words "year or two" that part of your statement becomes correct. However it might influence the validity of your overall argument some...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2013-06-05 11:28:24 UTC
I have learned that many people when given freedom will impose their own restrictions upon themselves and demand the freedom of others taken away if it negatively impacts them.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#76 - 2013-06-05 11:44:38 UTC
THC Trader wrote:
Use a carrier or one of the many other options to safely move your blueprints and other **** to nullsec. If you had even the slightest clue about how economics work, you would realize that there is far more demand for PvP ships in nullsec, and most of the nullbears don't exactly enjoy going 30+ jumps to jita. So you can charge a premium for the convenience of being able to get the ships in their home system. You are clueless. You fail at this game. If anything, there is not enough risk involved. Mine in nullsec. Produce t1 hulls that match your nullsec alliance's fleet doctrine. Purchase any t2 mods you can't produce yourself from jita, ship them to null. Salvage other people's sites, and buy some rig bpos to make rigs to complement the modules and t1 hulls you are providing. You can make a massive amount of profit doing this. Anyone who has half a clue about the market knows that jita is one of the worst places to try and pull a profit. Competition always drives the price down.


So you have learnt how to fleece your alliance - your corp mates with over inflated t1 and t2 ship solely because you can. Wow

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#77 - 2013-06-05 11:47:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I have learned that many people when given freedom will impose their own restrictions upon themselves and demand the freedom of others taken away if it negatively impacts them.


Deep ....

Love to get into a discussion about the concept of freedom and how it relates to Eve - but would detach from the core of the thread

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Swordfingers
The Swollen Horse Society
#78 - 2013-06-05 11:48:59 UTC
Crellion wrote:
Swordfingers wrote:
I don't know about him, but I work in RL. Doing a job I quite enjoy and use part of the money so I can enjoy the fun aspects of the game instead of just doing repetitive and menial tasks in game, just so I can do said repetitive and menial tasks for another month (which, to my surprise, seems to be quite a shocking thought for many people around here).

or to put it differently: If you can't afford to play the game, then ******* don't.


I have highlited the part that is wrong. If you replace the word "month" with the words "year or two" that part of your statement becomes correct. However it might influence the validity of your overall argument some...

There's no place for arguments here, I'm paying for a game. The moment I do something I don't enjoy (in my free time, playing a game for my entertainment), even for a few minutes, it's not worth the time, nor money.

If you do enjoy shooting red crosses or spreadsheet work or anything that makes you isk, then sure, you can have your cake and eat it, too (provided, you're good enough at it), but judging by OPs whine, he just fell for the plex trap.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#79 - 2013-06-05 12:24:33 UTC
Swordfingers wrote:
but judging by OPs whine, he just fell for the plex trap.


Assume - makes an ass out of you and me ...

The mountain of ISK I am currently sitting on (after spending the required amount on various BPOs) was made by making and selling BS and carriers. The time it took to accumulate that is what I am writing about.

No - stuff not transferable so don't ask.

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Swordfingers
The Swollen Horse Society
#80 - 2013-06-05 12:37:24 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Swordfingers wrote:
but judging by OPs whine, he just fell for the plex trap.


Assume - makes an ass out of you and me ...

The mountain of ISK I am currently sitting on (after spending the required amount on various BPOs) was made by making and selling BS and carriers. The time it took to accumulate that is what I am writing about.

No - stuff not transferable so don't ask.

So you either spent the time doing stuff that you do consider fun (in which case, I don't see the point of this thread, or at least the tone in which it was presented) or you spent it not having fun. If it was the second option, you can try some other parts of EVE or, indeed, quit, because the game doesn't suit you (making this thread mostly a youstuffz troll bait).