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New nebulae on the test server. Please give us your feedback.

First post
Author
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2011-11-06 01:19:19 UTC
Heimdallofasgard wrote:
Camios wrote:
Heimdallofasgard wrote:

the vapor sea lies between stain and the amarr nebulae it's pretty far to the north west in real terms

as for venal? haven't been up that way yet so can't comment


The vapor sea (or the pool of radiance, i'm not sure what is that thing in the south) is visible from curse, and it's as distant as the Domain region (where the Amarr nebula is located), so I think that the amarr nebula should be visible as the vapor sea.

But even if that's not the case, since there is nothing between the amarr nebula and Curse, I should be able to see at least something, like a little faint stain in the distance (faint. maybe, but the size is given by geometrical calculations and if i'm right is appreciable anyway). Instead, there isn't anything when you look west.



how do you know which way's west?



I simply refer to the 2 nebulas I see in space, and I know their positions in new eden because I wandered across ALL the regions and know, more or less, wher e those are located.

The pool of radiance or vapor sea (don't wknow what is its name) is visible from Khanid, from Period Basis and from Curse, that means it's west of Curse.
Valeo Galaem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2011-11-06 04:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Valeo Galaem
Heimdallofasgard wrote:
how do you know which way's west?


Press F11 to open the minimap.

It seems like a skybox will only ever have 2 to 3 celestial features in it. I think a lot more should be visible, but perhaps dimmed with range to provide a sense of distance.

Standalone Windows build of ccpgames/dae-to-red

https://github.com/Nu11u5/dae-to-red/releases

Brizzardo
Doomheim
#143 - 2011-11-06 04:27:42 UTC
so as i understand it every region has its own nebualae ? sounds good to me, as long as they strongly differ from each other, so if u change region u immediatly see the visual difference and say : "oh now im an other region" . that will give each region a "personality", because now , to me atleast, regions are all the same visually, nearly no difference. and after a time, with nebulae for each region, u will have a stronger feeling for where u are and that u are "somewhere else in eve" . all in all, very nice.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#144 - 2011-11-06 04:33:14 UTC
Camios wrote:
Vegare wrote:
I'd like to put emphasis on an issue which not a lot of people have noticed as it seems. It is a big deal for me though and I wonder if it will for others as well as soon as they are aware...

Link to Screenshot

The more dense areas of the nebulae let the light of the stars behind them shine through with full intensity. (It seems as if they were infront, or if the dark areas were holes in the nebulae) For comparison here's a real picture of a part of the Eagle Nebula - as you can see only the bright stars can be seen through the nebula. Their color is modulated and their brightness has diminished, though.

When you showcased the nebulas at fanfest you got that right as seen in the Screenshot linked above.

This "mistake" somehow destroys the illusion of three-dimensionality and therefore the feeling of depth of particular nebulae.

o/
vegare

/edit for clarification


This is not a mistake. If the stars are closer than the nebula, you can see them without problems: their light is not passing inside the nebula, and thus it should not be modified by it.




In opaque regions of nebulae you see only stars that are in front of it. In clear space you see stars from all ranges. The result is far fewer stars where the nebula is opaque, and just how much fewer depends on the distance to the nebula. We are not getting that on Singularity.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#145 - 2011-11-06 05:04:52 UTC
First: the new space scenes are beautiful. CCP, you did an excellent job here.

But I got to add my voice to one issue.
The goal CCP voiced of having the nebulae give us a feeling of moving through space as we fly from star to star is not really there.

You jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump BIG change.

How to fix? Having a backdrop for each system would take too much artist time and too much disk space. A better option would be to have the client construct the backdrop for each system as needed. The client could start doing this as soon as you warp to a stargate: get the background for the new system ready before you even jump into it. (Or if you warp to a POS with a jump gate, or if someone in your fleet lights a cyno. Don't wait for the actual session change, pre-contruct the new backdrop as soon as some indication of where the player is going is known.)

This would actually be easiest for null sec. The nebulae are small and don't overlap. Having the client slightly adjust their size and position on a per system basis could be done with little of the distortion issue mentioned by a DEV above. In high sec it could also be done for the farther nebulae.

But the close ones, the ones that fill the screen or wrap around you....simple scaling would fail. Here maybe break the nebula up into parts that can be scaled as needed. Another option would be to improve the algorithm used to make a backdrop form the 3D model of the nebula to the point the client can do it.

Another issue: I was in Paragon Soul and saw one small nebula and alot of clear space. Then I jumped to Period Basis and saw two. Why could I not see the second from Paragon? It could not have been hidden behind something, after all I can see all the way to the main galaxy! It seems to me that all nebulae should always be visible unless hidden behind another nebula, just maybe small and dim. So from null, off in the distance would be small versions of all the high sec nebulae.

Then there are the stars. One way to give the feeling of moving through space as we jump would be to have the stars shift, jump by jump. Having the client construct the background by just adding stars to the nebulae scene would not be that big an effort. So as you went down the pipe from Jita to Korsiki with every jump you would see the Korsiki red giant getting closer and closer.

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Brynseldimer
Vermelho Escorpia
#146 - 2011-11-06 07:33:12 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The goal CCP voiced of having the nebulae give us a feeling of moving through space as we fly from star to star is not really there.

You jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump BIG change.


I agree with this. There is no noticeable change of the nebulae until you jump through a region gate and then there's a complete and total change. A more gradual change in scenery would be nice if possible. Naturally, regions SHOULD have the biggest changes, but that doesn't mean each constellation can't have its own slightly different rendering of the region's nebulae.

Also: I know you guys said you want nullsec to feel cold and dark and scary, but Fade is pretty much just empty space with a tiny little grey cloud circling it. I'm all for eerie, scary, and dark looking formations in the parts of space that are supposed to be scary, but it'd be nice if there were a little bit more of them. Venal, Branch, and Tenal regions also suffer from similar lack of distinguishing features. The Cloud Ring region is a great example of having an interesting, but slightly eerie phenomenon related to the region. Regions can be dark and creepy without having to be nearly featureless.
Manc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#147 - 2011-11-06 07:47:41 UTC
Would it be possible to put the new nebulae and landmarks on the star map?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2011-11-06 08:13:04 UTC
Manc wrote:
Would it be possible to put the new nebulae and landmarks on the star map?


This, at least, needs to be done, otherwise a lot of players are going to have real trouble comprehending where everything is.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2011-11-06 10:55:07 UTC
Happened across this little issue while roaming around admiring everything.

http://i.imgur.com/J98rg.jpg
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#150 - 2011-11-06 11:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
I give you 129 screenshots from last night, took a trip out to null and blew up some stuff. All in all I think it is breathtaking. However I did notice the large jumps people have been talking about. The new shadows/lighting looks fan ******* tastic. New Brutix texture map looks really nice too, or at least I haven't flown one in a while and didn't notice its update.

I still noticed that when the newbulae get to small sizes it is easy to feel like they are painted on, and fake'ish. They look really good in screenshots however.

http://imgur.com/a/Z1Oms

I shared these with corp mates and a few of them made them into new wallpapers.

The malediction is perhaps the prettiest ship to go fly around and tour in. (ps don't laugh at my turret khanid ship with no ammo lol).

One other note, shouldn't the galaxy ribbon be more horizontal instead of diagonal?
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2011-11-06 11:16:56 UTC
These are all very nice.

I also picked up my new wallpaper while flying through Aridia entirely by accident.

The new ranis against the Aridian nebula with the star perfectly illuminating the duvolle laboratories logo on the wing. Just upon exiting warp for no distortion and undeployed turrets.
http://i.imgur.com/KbEoW.jpg
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2011-11-06 14:37:05 UTC
They are nicely done, especially at a medium to close distance they look great. Far off yeah they look more like a decal or something. Maybe it's because they are generally quite well-defined around the edges.

You sometimes blind yourself rotating the camera around and going from an angle with mostly black and then SUDDENLY NEBULAE FILLING YOUR SCREEN! which is kind of jarring.

Sometimes I feel there's maybe a little bit too much of the good stuff, it gets almost too busy in places. You have one local nebulae and then two more in the distance or something plus the sun and maybe a planet and it kind of feels like a High Definition Nyancat suicidebomber or something.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2011-11-06 16:01:56 UTC
+1 to this work CCP, masterful look. Yes, as some of the other posts have mentioned there are few things to adjust, but overall huge improvement to the overall ambiance.
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#154 - 2011-11-06 16:16:06 UTC
Several new nebulae have severe lighting problems, to the point of ships being unable to be discerned, and lack of visibility

Please take a look at this thread for screenshot examples and more depth on the issue.
Psihius
Perkone
Caldari State
#155 - 2011-11-06 16:36:09 UTC
Well, I have traveled from Jita to Amar, then to Rens, than took off tu Curse and then turned to Delve and visited every region in that part of space (total 9 regions so far).

I sould say that one background for whole region isn't good idea. Some regions are wast, you travel lots of LY and the background doesn't even move! It's riddicilous and leaves a feeling that someone made a joke on you. I do not say that every constelation should have it's own background - some constalation pockets are small and it looks fine. Other regions have constalations greatly apart and the positioning of the phenomena should change. I understand that's a lot of work and sometimes new rendering to do, but as I understood you have thouse 3D objects and probably someting can be done in game so that the game can change dimensions on the fly?

Anyway, please think this through. I urge you to fit an interceptor, plot a course on the map and then just travel 7-10 regions and compare distances on the map. I guarantee there will be a feeling of a cognitive dissonance at some point.
bornaa
GRiD.
#156 - 2011-11-06 17:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
Vincent Athena wrote:
First: the new space scenes are beautiful. CCP, you did an excellent job here.

But I got to add my voice to one issue.
The goal CCP voiced of having the nebulae give us a feeling of moving through space as we fly from star to star is not really there.

You jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump, no difference. Jump BIG change.

How to fix?


... stuff...



I read somewhere one post on this subject...
it said to just move regions more apart one from another so that we can see a distance between them on a star map...
that way we can tell that nebulaes are so big that we cant see differences until we dont jump great distance to new region...
and in game make jump gates that lead to next region bigger (more powerful) so that we have feeling that that is grater distance to jump then jumps inside the same region...

that way there is a lot less job to do for DEVs and immersion is untouched...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
The Thrill
#157 - 2011-11-06 18:18:05 UTC
The new backdrops are a pleasing change, but a bit overdone. Four nebulae?? They now look crowded-in. Thin the herd.

For once I check in on SISI and smile (well almost). I had just been thinking how dry and boring the old backdrops had become, and more importantly how difficult it was to read the routing information when some bright object was behind it. I decided to write a suggestion, but there it was on SISI,

Wonderful static backgrounds to the routing systems, viewable AT ANY TIME. That's the great change I see, and worthy of the time to post for sure.Big smile

Still there is overview silliness, and camera distance isn't saved during zone changes either, but that routing improvement was badly needed.

Now if the static DED1 & DED2 were still around, I cannot believe CCP falls for removing them so that the 'players' farming them for the last year can triple the prices. That will kill off the best frig/desy fits for everyone but THEIR alliance. You've been trivially social engineered if those 1s & 2s get removed. Think a Gisti-B Small Shield Booster is expensive now? Just wait until the complexes require good scanning skills, watch the isk cost triple to 150M. Kill the volume, jack the price -- pretty basic.

 Cruicible - oh noes, I like it!

The Thrill
#158 - 2011-11-06 18:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: The Thrill
Vincent Athena wrote:

How to fix? Having a backdrop for each system would take too much artist time and too much disk space.


Ancient problem solved long ago similar to your suggested fashion. You just send a generating string to the client, and the client runs an algorithm to create the backdrop. There is no need to pre-generate before the jump, FPS handle far more difficult changes intra-frame.

But I don't watch the backdrop much, there is all sorts of marketing and management that can be handled while traveling.

 Cruicible - oh noes, I like it!

EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#159 - 2011-11-06 19:40:45 UTC
Outer ring seems to have a large grey line going through part of the "sky".

http://i.imgur.com/36G8M.jpg

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#160 - 2011-11-06 19:54:04 UTC
The Thrill wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

How to fix? Having a backdrop for each system would take too much artist time and too much disk space.


Ancient problem solved long ago similar to your suggested fashion. You just send a generating string to the client, and the client runs an algorithm to create the backdrop. There is no need to pre-generate before the jump, FPS handle far more difficult changes intra-frame.

But I don't watch the backdrop much, there is all sorts of marketing and management that can be handled while traveling.

Apparently that is the first step CCP used to make the backdrop. Then an artist had to manually retouch it, taking time and effort. So CCP would have to improve the automatic system.

My guess is that a system like this was the original intent, but they just could not get the automatic system to make a sufficiently beautiful backdrop.

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