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The Claytons unsub
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Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-09-08 09:49:01 UTC
Capn Orgasmo wrote:

I say old sir,

Have you unsubbed or are you subbed or are you subbed in a substance with an unsubbed sub?


One of my subs is insubstantially subbed, but my other sub is less subbed then one might suppose, and certainly less subbed then my unsubstantial sub might suggest.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Colt Mitri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-09-08 09:49:52 UTC
Si Omega wrote:
Quote:
Most of the people who are unsubbing...... and may indeed return if the game is sorted out to their satisfaction


As I said. a Clayton's unsub. For mine, it's all P*** and W***, sitting at a keyboard screaming "i'm unsubbing" when you intend to hang around. It means absolutely f all.

Either say I quit and actually quit or grow a pair, get in your spaceship and start flying (you know FiS!!!)...

Along the way, jump in the forums, say g'day and cough up some constructive criticism when s*** REALLY goes bad, not destructive negativity learned by being spoiled brats who didn't win a lollipop at the local fair.

Eve will improve just by doing THAT small thing...... I'll see ya out there somewhere.

Or not. (I don't actually know if your all still playing dammit). Cry







This issue seems to really concern you, so my question is this: Why? What do you care what other people do with there subscriptions?
Phelan Votronski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-09-08 09:51:43 UTC
Si Omega wrote:
If you REALLY unsubbed and quit etc. then you won't be reading this and all the players that have stayed can get a laugh at your expense.


How so? What's laughable about quitting an online game? I believe there are plenty of good reasons to do so no matter what game we are talking about. And I'm pretty sure the joke isn't on the guy who finds something better to do but on the fat nerds that actually think they're better off (like you).
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#24 - 2011-09-08 10:28:56 UTC
Si Omega wrote:
Quote:
If players are not telling the truth, this graph would look differently.


That's ppl logging/not logging. That's not the "unsubs". Different metric.


That graph also shows that any decline actually halted with Incarna, not a great use of statistics!
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-09-08 10:52:03 UTC
Grateler wrote:
Si Omega wrote:
Quote:
If players are not telling the truth, this graph would look differently.


That's ppl logging/not logging. That's not the "unsubs". Different metric.


That graph also shows that any decline actually halted with Incarna, not a great use of statistics!


Are you sure? Because it looks to me like it has declined by 500 players since incarna was released.

If that's the extent of incarnas peak, slowing the rate of decline, then we have a problem. Once the peak is over, it'll continue to drop.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Zanziba'ar
Blood Raider Marauders
Blood Raider Shipyards
#26 - 2011-09-08 14:17:37 UTC
I couldn't believe that CCP would make an attempt at making money during a recession! it was horrifying seeing as they may be having a little economic strain to introduce measures in which to gain new members..Utterly terrifying so i unsubbed. well i didn't i just wanted TO JUMP ON THE BAND WAGON AND BE AN *******!


yeah no one unsubbed
  • Mulzvich "Zanziba'ar" Gorath
Si Omega
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-09-08 21:54:00 UTC
Quote:
This issue seems to really concern you, so my question is this: Why? What do you care what other people do with there subscriptions?


The crux of the matter. The amount of bad and (in my view) unwarranted publicity hurts the game. Not for those already here but for those that might play.

My whole beef is that instead of just quietly disappearing into the night and playing something else, disenfranchised players feel they need to scream and rant about quitting (which, let's be honest, is quite childish) and this may ALSO prevent new blood coming in.

Their subsequent "I've unsubbed but I'm still playing so I can cause maximum carnage" smacks of hypocrisy, stupidity and downright nastiness. It's ego stroking and childish and just damages things further. For no gain. It's selfish in the extreme.

If you do not intend to play, leave. If you DO intend to play, then, as I stated, cough up some constructive criticism and move forward. By constructive criticism, I mean the kind that people actually listen - and RESPOND - to.

Nothing but "bad, bad, bad" is the kind of thing that kills games. A cycle of olds leaving and new players too scared to join will absolutely spell the demise of Eve.

It's my game, I love it. I'm almost 2 and a half years in and still log EVERY day. Probs? yes. Deathbed? nah.

Be good to your Mum Cool
Si Omega
Doomheim
#28 - 2011-09-08 21:59:29 UTC
Quote:
And I'm pretty sure the joke isn't on the guy who finds something better to do but on the fat nerds that actually think they're better off (like you).


If you play Eve you're a "fat nerd"? Lordy lordy....

So you've "unsubbed" and still playing?
Or have you quit and are posting on a fat nerd mates account?
Or have you lost weight and can't play anymore?
Or your a fat nerd with a strange sense of humour?

And yes, if being a fat nerd who thinks I am better off is a good thing then yes. By better off you mean that all the spoiled brats are leaving? Then, yes again.

Be good to Mum Cool
Si Omega
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-09-08 22:06:12 UTC
Quote:
a) Aren't Australian, and are doing as smashing a job of misinterpreting Aussie culture as those Americans who come over here and use "dead horse" to refer to tomato sauce, thinking its authentic or some ****, OR
b) are occa as hell, in a bizarrely backwards 1980's way


I thought the term "dead horse" for "sauce" was English? Yanks call it ketchup. (which is what Kiwis yell to their kids when they lag behind).

Is it cockney rhyme? As in "trouble and strife" - wife, etc....

And I'm true blue. The term Clayton's has been around for years and I've been using it for years. Perhaps I picked it from my parents use of it. Dunno. I use it in the vernacular, saying X but doing Y.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-09-08 22:10:27 UTC
I unsubbed, then resubbed when CCP met us halfway on the NEX issue.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#31 - 2011-09-08 22:14:20 UTC
Most annoying and pointless are those who unsub in protest only to reactivate a couple of days later and carry on playing the whole time. Cry wolf like that too often and CCP will learn to ignore the noise, taking away our ability to effectively protest later.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2011-09-08 22:23:52 UTC
Si Omega wrote:
Their subsequent "I've unsubbed but I'm still playing so I can cause maximum carnage" smacks of hypocrisy, stupidity and downright nastiness. It's ego stroking and childish and just damages things further. For no gain. It's selfish in the extreme.
Not really. It sounds like the right thing to do: you make sure to hit CCP where it hurts — both in the wallet and in the reputation.
Quote:
If you do not intend to play, leave. If you DO intend to play, then, as I stated, cough up some constructive criticism and move forward.
Just one problem: CCP have shown amply that constructive criticism isn't how you best communicate with them. You have to scream and disrupt things for them to take notice.
Si Omega
Doomheim
#33 - 2011-09-08 22:45:41 UTC
Tippia. You've shown in your posts to be a rational kind of person.

Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.

The type of behaviour I am seeing is expected in Eve, you know, the game!

How many here would walk into their bosses office and demand a payrise by threatening to quit?
How many here would try and get out of a traffic fine by yelling at a cop?

Sure, strikes were once common as a bargaining tool but as we have seen historically, unions (or worker representation) have lost any real power now because of HOW they went about getting benefits. It went too far, for too long or was (as was often the case) too trivial to be taken seriously... In fact, in some cases I have seen whole companies go under or move offshore, losing it for EVERYONE because of a ratbag militant element (read union rep (Mittani?)) that doesn't know when to shutup.

Yes, rallies and public disobedience have worked to highlight issues but they are generally never good enough or strong enough to resolve issues. Resolution comes from offering alternative solutions and harnessing the power to get it implemented in a manner that leaves ALL parties feeling they have both relinquished and gained from it.

99.9% of world diplomacy and fiscal trade occurs because of good communication skills, good conduct and civility.

People really need to seperate RL and VL.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2011-09-08 22:56:11 UTC
Si Omega wrote:
Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.
…apart from CCP having a long history of reacting to that, and that alone. They've groomed this behaviour themselves, consciously or not.

People have given up on being constructive because experience has shown that in this particular case, it doesn't lead anywhere. Whether you want to conclude from this that CCP does actually live in la-la land then… well… I'm not sure you'd get many people arguing against that.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-09-08 23:00:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Si Omega wrote:
Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.
…apart from CCP having a long history of reacting to that, and that alone. They've groomed this behaviour themselves, consciously or not.

People have given up on being constructive because experience has shown that in this particular case, it doesn't lead anywhere. Whether you want to conclude from this that CCP does actually live in la-la land then… well… I'm not sure you'd get many people arguing against that.


Richard Hammond II wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
If CCP reallocates resources to FiS, the CSM will sing their praises loudly and in the press. We want to reward sensible behavior.


again though, they CANT do that. Partly out of pride, they have a lot of hubris, too much to not "stay the course" and admit theyre wrong, but also giving in to a move like this brings up the idea of negotiating with terrorists. Whats to stop you from applying this pressure every time hey make a decision you dont like?

If they give in, they set a dangerous precedent, the game direction is taken out of their hands. If they dont, the game dies. You havent given then a recourse of retreat.

Quote:
Sun Tzu:
31. To a surrounded enemy you must leave a way of escape.
32. Do not press an enemy at bay.

Tu Yu: Prince Fu Ch’ai said: ‘Wild beasts, when at bay, fight desperately. How much more is this true of men! If they know there is no alternative they will fight to the death.’


Yea Im biased, this guy's a friend of mine IRL, its still a good point

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#36 - 2011-09-08 23:03:48 UTC
Si Omega wrote:


Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.

The type of behaviour I am seeing is expected in Eve, you know, the game!

How many here would walk into their bosses office and demand a payrise by threatening to quit?
How many here would try and get out of a traffic fine by yelling at a cop?

Yes, rallies and public disobedience have worked to highlight issues but they are generally never good enough or strong enough to resolve issues. Resolution comes from offering alternative solutions and harnessing the power to get it implemented in a manner that leaves ALL parties feeling they have both relinquished and gained from it.

99.9% of world diplomacy and fiscal trade occurs because of good communication skills, good conduct and civility.




1. You compare a business relationship (supplier - customer) with power relationships (boss - employee / police - cititzen). This only serves to confuse the discussion, as it is irrelevant.
2. Cancelled subs are monitored by CCP when they happen, even if gametime remains on the account.
3. By stating that you unsub, you are actually interacting with the rest of the playerbase. Some - like you - get annoyed by the treads, but others might move closer to unsubbing themselves.
4. As Tippia points out, CCP appears to be totally unmoved by "good communication skills". They have shown before though, that they understand the language of unsubs (affecting the bottom line) and bad press (ditto).
5. In the end, our relationship with CCP is a business relationship. Diplomacy and negotiation works best between equal partners.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-09-08 23:05:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Si Omega wrote:
Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.
…apart from CCP having a long history of reacting to that, and that alone. They've groomed this behaviour themselves, consciously or not.

People have given up on being constructive because experience has shown that in this particular case, it doesn't lead anywhere. Whether you want to conclude from this that CCP does actually live in la-la land then… well… I'm not sure you'd get many people arguing against that.


THere is huge difference between the community getting together and telling CCP that a nerf or a mechanic change is going to do more damage then good.

It is a completely different story when the players ettempt to tell a company what their next expansion is going to be and if not the players are going to try and destroy the game all together.

THe arguement isn't about what CCP has done or not done, whole different subject.
THe arguement is about the players going to far.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Si Omega
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-09-08 23:22:13 UTC
Quote:
THe arguement isn't about what CCP has done or not done, whole different subject.
THe arguement is about the players going to far.


Nutshelled.

And here's the thing, I am NOT defending whether CCP have made the right decision about lack of FiS or Incarna (THEY thought it was, otherwise it wouldn't have been done duh.).

But I am getting really annoyed at the way SOME the "playerbase" is reacting to supposedly achieve an end.

And for mine, I reckon I've been here long enough (and I've walked on Earth long enough) to say I can find NO REASON why CCP would stonewall their customer base when their entire forward offerings RELY on Eve to survive.

There appears to a common theme that CCP is DELIBERATELY sabotaging their game. WHY on Earth would they do that???

What I see is that CCP has a grand design of bringing console gaming side by side to a PC environment.
WiS WILL be huge.
NeX WILL be huge.

The only ISSUE that I can see is the timing and methodology of deployment.

The fact that company resources NEED to be channelled into the grand design is obvious. Unless CCP go to the bank with cap in hand seeking unlimited funding to deploy and employ more resources to handle both FiS and Wis projects, then something has to be sacrificed in the short term. This is a commercial reality.

Which takes me back to this whole "protest crap" as coming from players with spolied brat syndrome. I want it yesterday and if you don't give it to me I'll scream. waaaaa

I've got kids. 7 of 'em. I just tell 'em to stfu. I got big picture to deal with. You're part of it, but you ain't the solution. Trust my judgement and you'll get everything you want, and more! Eventually.

And in my experience, only children have no concept of time, patience and big picture.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#39 - 2011-09-08 23:24:16 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Si Omega wrote:
Acting like a spoiled child is NOT how things are done in RL. And let's face it, CCP is RL peoople with an RL company making RL money.
…apart from CCP having a long history of reacting to that, and that alone. They've groomed this behaviour themselves, consciously or not.

People have given up on being constructive because experience has shown that in this particular case, it doesn't lead anywhere. Whether you want to conclude from this that CCP does actually live in la-la land then… well… I'm not sure you'd get many people arguing against that.


THere is huge difference between the community getting together and telling CCP that a nerf or a mechanic change is going to do more damage then good.

It is a completely different story when the players ettempt to tell a company what their next expansion is going to be and if not the players are going to try and destroy the game all together.

THe arguement isn't about what CCP has done or not done, whole different subject.
THe arguement is about the players going to far.


Thats the point I was trying to make in what Ken quoted. You dont give CCP a way to do ANYTHING without making things worse for themselves (in the case of giving in) or us (by letting it go)

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#40 - 2011-09-08 23:35:54 UTC
Leaving EvE w/o biomassing means you intend to come back after CCP buffs whatever carebear activity in which you partake.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
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