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Clone game mechanic enhancements

Author
Alundil
Rolled Out
#1 - 2013-06-05 05:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
I didn't want this to get lost in the "Clone Costs" thread so I bumped it out to its thread.


Alundil wrote:


I am sure that I'm not the only one who would love to see the following things;
1. Reduced/eliminated cool-down when switching between jump clones (could look into cost per JC activation as I saw another poster mention).
-o- A skill implemented to reduce/eliminate the cooldown would accomplish this.
Skill: Infomorph Host Reconfiguration (Rank 5)
Bonus: Reduces the Jump Clone cooldown time 4% per level (effectively allowing JC every ~6h 45m @ LVL 5 skills)
L1 = 23h
L2 = 21h
L3 = 18h
L4 = 13h
L5 = 6.7h
Prerequisite: Infomorph Psychology 3
-o- This is one of the frequent causes for pilots to miss opportunities for fights.
-o- JC out to a distant system (0.0 --> HiSec for example). Ping goes out that a strat op has just been called for later that day/evening but you are effectively out of the fight. All due to clone game mechanics.
-o- There is either a time constraint (the cool down) or it's cost prohibitive to death clone back (clone costs and/or implant costs).

2. Ability to jump clone within the same station without destroying a jump clone if one is already present (see above - could be a cost to jump into a clone in the same station, something along the lines of "Scotty the Engineer needs to free up a clone vat capsule" or something).
-o- A skill implemented to increase the number of jump clones able to be stored in a single station
Skill: Infomorph Bio-Management (Rank 8)
Bonus: Increases the number of Jump Clones allowable in a single station by 1 per level (Note: Does not alter the total number available of Jump Clones provided by the Infomorph Psychology skill)
Prerequisite: Infomorph Host Reconfiguration 3
-o- Travelling to a station that just so happens to have a JC already and an emergency arises necessitating the use of a JC many regions away. This is rarely done in many cases because the JC already present in the station has specialized implants and death cloning might not be an option either for the same reason.
-o- In the example from #1, this mechanic could allow a pilot to have multiple JC in a single station thereby making the pilot's choice "to pew or not to pew" less a question of implant/clone economics than it currently is.

3. Ability to jump clone into and out of w-space. Either from a POS Clone Vat bay or a Rorq clone vat bay. These things must be the most underused POS mods and capital mods in the game.(This has been requested numerous times over the years - but wh combat gang compositions change rapidly depending on who you might be fighting or expecting to fight or what effects the wh you're planning a fight in has - jumping out to some empire location, to the JC, possibly on the other side of the universe from the location you found then slow boating back means that JCs aren't used to their full potential by worm-holers).

These next few are not necessarily tied to clones per se.
4. Ability to alter the implants plugged in both to jump clones and the existing "active clone." This could be accomplished through the use of a skill (similar to reverse engineering) granting a % chance to succeed at removal of the implant in a functional state. This same skill could be leveraged to harvest implants from corpses.
-o- A skill implemented to offer a % chance of "salvaging" implants from clone corpses
Skill: Infomorph Augmentation Recovery
Bonus: Increases the chance of recovering implants by 10% per level per plugged in implant
Prerequisite: Cybernetics 3 & Biology 3 & Nanite Operation 2

5. Clone implant harvesting (see #4).
-o- A reason beyond the meta (bragging/trophy) to collect pod corpses.
-o- Allows for additional gameplay options for battlefield salvagers
-o- Could offer an interesting market possibility in salable corpses, corpse recovery services, scamming possibilities that in turn offer their own risk/reward etc.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#2 - 2013-06-06 16:09:56 UTC
Bumping this back to the top.

Would love to see any critique/comment/suggestions.

Thanks.

I'm right behind you

Grantness
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2013-06-06 16:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Grantness
1. Something under 24 hours would be nice. But not 2 hours.. that is too frequent imo.
2. yes. Not sure why we would need a new skill though.
3. no.
4. nah.
5. sure, it's a corpse.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#4 - 2013-06-07 01:50:48 UTC
Grantness wrote:
1. Something under 24 hours would be nice. But not 2 hours.. that is too frequent imo.
2. yes. Not sure why we would need a new skill though.
3. no.
4. nah.
5. sure, it's a corpse.


1. This could be easily managed by adjusting the cooldown reduction offered through the new skill.

2. Glad you like it; As for the skill it was merely a way to add a "believable sounding" mechanic that might fit with the existing Lore in the game.

3. Why not? I have spent the majority of my game time living in various wormhole systems ranging from C2 through C4. One of the gripes is the absolute uselessness (seemingly) of the Clone Vat bay module that is able to be equipped yet I've heard nary a peep from anyone using it. This is even after having spent a pretty decent amount of time through two seperate stints in 0.0. The proliferation of Outposts (and therefore station clone/medical services has made that item all be obsolete (as far as I can tell). Opening it up to w-space might offer some interesting gaming possibilities (a la swapping implanted clones for various tactical reasons).

4. Do you not like the idea of being able to swap implants....at a risk of failure?

5. The skills (hypothetically) allowing this as a possibility are also the same that a capsuleer would use on themselves. Obviously CCP could choose a completely different mechanic, I simply thought that this might offer some additional, compelling, benefit if it tied into the existing skill science tree and the Lore, such as I am aware of it.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#5 - 2013-06-16 22:19:41 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#6 - 2013-06-22 21:11:03 UTC
Bumping to top. Any other feedback is most appreciated.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#7 - 2013-07-10 14:17:47 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#8 - 2013-07-10 14:36:05 UTC
**** ideas that only aim to reduce the consequences of your choices, except implant salvaging which would be cool.



.

Alundil
Rolled Out
#9 - 2013-07-10 14:50:13 UTC
Roime, please explain your comment about reducing consequences of choices.

I'll take a stab at it in the meantime but I might not be fully on the same page as you.

Clone cool down isn't reducing the consequences of my choice. I didn't choose a 24hr cooldown. I prefer to see this as a way to increase options to choose from (PVP flavor 1,2,3 or PVE or indy, etc)


Jump cloning within the same station, also, is not a reduction of consequence of choice but an enabler of further choices. I've never lost an implant clone by jumping same station (this would be a consequence some might like to reduce). I have, however, missed on combat opportunities due to having the wrong "headset" on. This change would increase the likelihood of undock and pew pew. That's a good thing imo.

Jumping Cloning into and out of w-space would be the only thing in this list that I could even remotely apply your point to as I choose to live in w-space. So being able to clone in/out could be seen as a reduction of that. However, I think that the points I offered in the OP clearly point to "Reduction" not being the motivator of these ideas.

Swapping implants can already be done now. There's simply a 100% chance of losing the implant. I thought it might be cool to offer the possibility (based on ISK-skill and training time) to increase, marginally, the chance of not losing an implant. So many of EVE's mechanics have %chance modifiers to them already, what's one more? If the implant pops, so what it happens. RNG rolls in your favor.....that's pretty cool.

Glad you like the implant salvaging idea. I think it would also pretty cool.


Hopefully your comment wasn't just a drive by and some actual substantive discussions can take place.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2013-07-12 00:43:38 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Sigras
Conglomo
#11 - 2013-07-12 09:05:57 UTC
1. defending large swaths of space needs to be more difficult not easier . . . so the minimum clone jump timer I would be ok with would be 20 hours, enough to alternate your play sessions if youre on a regular schedule.

2. I would even go a step farther and say you only need to wait 2 hours to JC in the same station, so you can switch out of your expensive +5s and go PvP without changing the balance of power projection.

3. heck no, CCP specifically made WH space hard to get into and out of. It requires coordination and teamwork and thats the way uh huh, uh huh i like it.

4. maybe . . . though this may have an adverse effect on the implant market.

5. It would have to yield something other than a chance at salvaging the implants or you would adversely effect the implant market. imagine if salvaging ships gave you minerals . . .
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-12 12:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Sigras wrote:

5. It would have to yield something other than a chance at salvaging the implants or you would adversely effect the implant market. imagine if salvaging ships gave you minerals . . .


How about some kinde of "damaged implant" type of item that can then be used to build new implants. Like some ship salvage items are being used t build rigs etc.

"look, i got this good as new implant here, barely used..."

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#13 - 2013-07-12 12:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Debora Tsung wrote:
Sigras wrote:

5. It would have to yield something other than a chance at salvaging the implants or you would adversely effect the implant market. imagine if salvaging ships gave you minerals . . .


How about some kinde of "damaged implant" type of item that can then be used to build new implants. Like some ship salvage items are being used t build rigs etc.

"look, i got this good as new implant here, barely used..."

Implants are isk sink system as they mostly come from LP shops. Any kind of salvage/repair implant suggestion is BAD just because it'll ruin implant market even more (if it is even possible) and will contribute to higher inflation rates.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Alundil
Rolled Out
#14 - 2013-07-15 08:28:34 UTC
Bump.

I'm liking the feedback so far. The CCP 'iteration' :-)

Other thoughts or ideas?

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#15 - 2013-07-15 08:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Sigras wrote:
1. defending large swaths of space needs to be more difficult not easier . . . so the minimum clone jump timer I would be ok with would be 20 hours, enough to alternate your play sessions if youre on a regular schedule.

2. I would even go a step farther and say you only need to wait 2 hours to JC in the same station, so you can switch out of your expensive +5s and go PvP without changing the balance of power projection.

3. heck no, CCP specifically made WH space hard to get into and out of. It requires coordination and teamwork and thats the way uh huh, uh huh i like it.

4. maybe . . . though this may have an adverse effect on the implant market.

5. It would have to yield something other than a chance at salvaging the implants or you would adversely effect the implant market. imagine if salvaging ships gave you minerals . . .


1. The thinking could be modified in any number of ways. Obviously there will be many
Thoughts on what is good/too little/not enough. That's all part of the discussion.

2. There you go, exactly. Looking to increase the fighting.

3. I live in wormhole as well. Being able to swap clones for the same reasons as number 2 ought to be just as viable in w-space as elsewhere. It's the fights.

4. If the percentage chance is low enough it ought to not have too negative an effect.

5. See number 4 and this could also open another conflict driver and conflicts destroy a lot of implants.



*****edit****
Just caught some rather glaring spelling issues :( boo me. Correcting those even though they're captured for eternity in
It's what I get for responding on tablet with swype and auto-correct

I'm right behind you

Sigras
Conglomo
#16 - 2013-07-15 09:10:24 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Sigras wrote:
1. defending large swaths of space needs to be more difficult not easier . . . so the minimum clone jump timer I would be ok with would be 20 hours, enough to alternate your play sessions if youre on a regular schedule.

2. I would even go a step farther and say you only need to wait 2 hours to JC in the same station, so you can switch out of your expensive +5s and go PvP without changing the balance of power projection.

3. heck no, CCP specifically made WH space hard to get into and out of. It requires coordination and teamwork and thats the way uh huh, uh huh i like it.

4. maybe . . . though this may have an adverse effect on the implant market.

5. It would have to yield something other than a chance at salvaging the implants or you would adversely effect the implant market. imagine if salvaging ships gave you minerals . . .


1. The thinking could be modified in any number of ways. Obviously there will be many
Thoughts on what is good/too little/not enough. That's all part of the discussion.

2. There you go, exactly. Looking till increase the fighting.

3. I live in worm hold as well. Being able to swap clones for the same reasons as number 2 ought to be just as viable in w-space as else where. It's the fights.

4. If the percentage chance I'd low enough it ought to not have to negative an effect.

5. See number 4 and this could also open another conflict driver a and conflicts destroy a lot on implants.

1. Honestly, any increase in power projection is too much; if it were up to me, Id remove pod jumping too. The ease that large alliances have to jump back and forth to defend their space from all sides with one fleet is sickening.

2. x

3. Yes, ill give you clone jumping within the same system; i initially thought you meant clone jumping into W-space from K-space and vice versa. If you just want to swap implants, that should be totally fine.

4. I feel like if the percentage were low enough to not have an adverse effect on the market, it would be so low as to not be worth anyone's time.

5. See number 4, also I have no problem with items dropping from implants, but whats wrong with having those materials be part of something else. Im pretty sure that this would be the only situation where blowing up something in eve results in materials to rebuild that same thing. What if they were used to build different kinds of implants which could only be built through using destroyed implants thus not effecting the current market at all?
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-07-15 11:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
I'm down with 2 and 5, as long as corpse harvesting is used in some new industrial process and isn't just a way to recycle implants and undercut the existing market.

I'll also throw in a vote for being able to name your jump clones and the ability to pick up and transport them from one place to another.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Loki Feiht
Pathfinders.
Shattered Freeholds
#18 - 2013-07-15 22:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
Dust soldiers can have tonnes of clones and all in the same location which they can also transport to other locations, why cant capsuleers? (theoretically this could make titan vat bays much more of an advantage)

and yeah renaming clones would be nice

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Sigras
Conglomo
#19 - 2013-07-18 00:30:36 UTC
^^ because power projection is a consideration in Eve, and it isnt in dust.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#20 - 2013-07-21 20:18:58 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

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