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T2 Battleships
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Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-27 22:52:28 UTC
Ok we know that CCP is now up to the re-works of Pirate Factions and Tech 2.
They are quite a few things that need fixing such as 3 of the 4 Interdictors, Marauders and so on.

In the Battleship class there is only Black Ops and the Marauders (Essentially really big assault ships but pve), they need to add maybe one or two more ship classes on top of a couple fixes to to the Black Ops like Covert Ops Cloak and fixes to the Marauders.

I was thinking a Carrier styled Battleship, but Drones only for the first new class, can't use guns, can fit drone controls, uses up to 10 drones without drone controls at ship level 5, like a first step point before going into actual carriers. (No Jump Drive, just to make that clear). Gallente would be focused around more drone damage, Amarr would be focused around more controllable drones and drone bay, Caldari would be more focused around sentry drones and minmatar around faster and high tracking drones. Maybe?

The Marauders skill set is essentially the first step for Dreadnoughts so that's covered.

Possibly a Battleship sized Interdictor, but that would obsolete the Heavy Interdictors, so that ones a no go, unless it fired probes like a normal interdictor, but fired them like a bomber, the probe travels 30km before deploying, probably a really broken OP concept. Other than that I cant think of anther T2 Battleship class.

What are your thoughts?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-28 02:50:32 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=108615


This thread^

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Me ofcourse
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-05-28 02:54:54 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Ok we know that CCP is now up to the re-works of Pirate Factions and Tech 2.
They are quite a few things that need fixing such as 3 of the 4 Interdictors, Marauders and so on.

In the Battleship class there is only Black Ops and the Marauders (Essentially really big assault ships but pve), they need to add maybe one or two more ship classes on top of a couple fixes to to the Black Ops like Covert Ops Cloak and fixes to the Marauders.

i do agree that the blackops ships do require the need to fit cov ops cloaks, i mean its kinda stupid how they cant warp cloaked (at least remove the speed bonus or reduce it in its place)

I was thinking a Carrier styled Battleship, but Drones only for the first new class, can't use guns, can fit drone controls, uses up to 10 drones without drone controls at ship level 5, like a first step point before going into actual carriers. (No Jump Drive, just to make that clear). Gallente would be focused around more drone damage, Amarr would be focused around more controllable drones and drone bay, Caldari would be more focused around sentry drones and minmatar around faster and high tracking drones. Maybe?

well i'd suggest something in the line of 1/2 the health of a carrier have the same bonuses as the carriers BUT without the bonus drone range and without capital modules and fighters only exception will be to the drone control unit. so they will be able to launch more then 5 drones but wont rival carriers in the sense of amount of drones to launch

The Marauders skill set is essentially the first step for Dreadnoughts so that's covered.

ok well the skill set is correct, but the marauders seriously lack PG (mainly the vargur in this point) so a little look at their stats is in order

Possibly a Battleship sized Interdictor, but that would obsolete the Heavy Interdictors, so that ones a no go, unless it fired probes like a normal interdictor, but fired them like a bomber, the probe travels 30km before deploying, probably a really broken OP concept. Other than that I cant think of anther T2 Battleship class.

This idea needs a little rethinking, dont think a battleship sized interdictor is really a good idea, current HIC's and DIC's are sufficent, they are not exactly over tanked (they can die if not careful) while conducting the job they designed for a battleship sized interdictor will probably be overpriced or overtanked to where its impossible to kill or too much to fly

What are your thoughts?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#4 - 2013-05-28 03:06:12 UTC
If we get T2 battleships that can fit CovOps cloaks, I expect that they will almost certainly not have a Jump Drive.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-05-28 03:08:28 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If we get T2 battleships that can fit CovOps cloaks, I expect that they will almost certainly not have a Jump Drive.



They would still be dependent on cyno's for game breaking travel, but a BLops with a recon or two, with both a jump drive and cov cloaks would be capable of moving... well... anywhere almost carefree. THAT would be bad. Cool for BLops pilots... bad for Eve.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6 - 2013-05-28 04:19:55 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If we get T2 battleships that can fit CovOps cloaks, I expect that they will almost certainly not have a Jump Drive.



They would still be dependent on cyno's for game breaking travel, but a BLops with a recon or two, with both a jump drive and cov cloaks would be capable of moving... well... anywhere almost carefree. THAT would be bad. Cool for BLops pilots... bad for Eve.


They'd be dependent on having a blops to open a covops bridge, then. There's no way I can see a covops battleship having both the ability to warp cloaked and its own covops jump drive without giving up both a tank and any hope of weapons.
PavlikX
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#7 - 2013-05-28 09:38:54 UTC
We need continuation of entire assault ships idea in large sized vessels. New class of T2 battleships needed. And there must be two ships in this class for each race - combat and attack vessels. I don't think that we need such radiacal solutions like proposed carier style ships for now because CCP have not completed their work with existing T2 line - we do not have "ordinary" PvP oriented versions of t1 battleships
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-28 10:15:22 UTC
Unless you let Black Ops battleships fit CovOps cloaks, you can just rename the class to Taxi. Nobody is going to bring it to the fight, considering it's price and when recons can do the same job - only jump portal generation is their function... Which is sad.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#9 - 2013-05-28 10:34:28 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:
Unless you let Black Ops battleships fit CovOps cloaks, you can just rename the class to Taxi. Nobody is going to bring it to the fight, considering it's price and when recons can do the same job - only jump portal generation is their function... Which is sad.


I submit that part of the reason nobody brings a Blops to a fight is because they tend not to survive very long in one. It's not so much the need for a Covops cloak (as much as I do wish they had them) but the need for something more closely resembling a tank.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#10 - 2013-05-28 14:18:56 UTC
Quote:
I was thinking a Carrier styled Battleship, but Drones only for the first new class, can't use guns, can fit drone controls, uses up to 10 drones without drone controls at ship level 5, like a first step point before going into actual carriers. (No Jump Drive, just to make that clear). Gallente would be focused around more drone damage, Amarr would be focused around more controllable drones and drone bay, Caldari would be more focused around sentry drones and minmatar around faster and high tracking drones. Maybe?

I wouldn't go as far as having all 4 Factions with their own ship. Just make ONE and it be Gallente BS skill and be specifically of Creodron design (or w/e Corp makes the Drone ships). If this BS is to have full access to Highsec then you seriously need to rethink how many Drones it can launch for balance. (10) Drones at BS 5 without using a single Drone Control Unit would be seriously OP. You're talking ~1700 DPS from (10) T2 Heavies/Sentries using (4) DDA's if the ship also got at least a 10% per lvl dmg bonus. Here's my thoughts, and yes I did actually read some of that thread the 2nd poster linked.


CreoDron Carrier Battleship (Would essentially be a Navy ship so 19 slots)

Since Drones are destructible, bumping up the bonus from +10% to +15% hitpoints per level would help them survive a little bit longer. Once all Drones are killed, this ship would be a floating paper weight. Starting with lower base numbers like only 350m3 Bay and 125mb Bandwidth means the ship wouldn't be instantly OP for a player with Battleship lvl 1. I envision it would look like the Lucrehulk-class battleship From Star Wars (the ones the Trade Federation used in the blockade of Naboo).

  • No ability to use Drone Control Units.
  • Can fit (1) Gang Module (more if you use Command Processors, like T1 BC's).
  • No Capital anything, no CovOps Cloak, no Jump Drive, no Clone Vat, etc.

    • Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
    +7.5% Drone Damage and +15% Drone hitpoints
    +25mb Bandwidth and +50m3 Drone Bay

    Role Bonus:
    +37.5% Drone Optimal and Tracking (and MWD Speed?)

    Slot layout: 5H, 8M, 6L; 0 turrets , 0 launchers
    Fittings: 6500 PWG, 700 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200 / 7500 / 9000
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000 / 1100s / 5.51
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 96 / .1254 / 100250000 / 16.88s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 350
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km / 85 / 7
    Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
    Signature radius: 585



    The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
    monkfish2345
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #11 - 2013-05-28 15:00:26 UTC
    I don;t understand where the current obsession to bring back more than 5 drone ships is coming from. it serves not real purpose. it would make far more sense just to give higher bonus' to hp and dmg. obviously there would be a little more utility with being able to field more types of drones, but i really don't think it's an advantage worth making a completely new hull for.

    Black ops do need to be looked at, and in my mind the most obvious thing that would make sense is for the bridging mechanic to be changed slightly so that they are actually able to take part in the battles they bridge ships into. it seems currently on most occasions even if they blops wanted to fight, it has to make sure everyone gets through the bridge first and by then the fight is well on it's way to being over. (considering blops/bomber/recons fleets revolve around ganks not drawn out fights)

    personally i find it hard to see what role you would actually want another t2 BS hull to perform which would not make another specialist ship obsolete. add to that the likelihood of a 4th t1 hull to fill out the disruption line. you need to think what role realistically should BS be doing?

    the only thing that really spring to mind for me, is some description of anti-cap ship / micro dread which would open up more strategic options for those not able to field massive capital blobs. as currently if you don't have them it's very hard to compete without just spamming enormous numbers.
    The issue then is to find some mechanism that allows them to operate as an anti cap ship primarily and not overlap into other roles.
    Cameron Cahill
    Deaths Consortium
    Pandemic Horde
    #12 - 2013-05-28 16:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
    The carrier-battleship is a bad idea, its just a stupidly expensive dominix that causes triple the server load..

    The battleship sized interdictor I think has been mentioned before. The way I always wanted to do it was to have a projectable bubble that formed around a locked target, much like the projected ECM burst on supercaps works, balanced by having the same remote rep restrictions as the hic does now.
    Mahuika
    AIR WATER
    #13 - 2013-06-04 03:42:44 UTC
    [quote=DeLindsay]
    Quote:
    CreoDron Carrier Battleship (Would essentially be a Navy ship so 19 slots)

    Since Drones are destructible, bumping up the bonus from +10% to +15% hitpoints per level would help them survive a little bit longer. Once all Drones are killed, this ship would be a floating paper weight. Starting with lower base numbers like only 350m3 Bay and 125mb Bandwidth means the ship wouldn't be instantly OP for a player with Battleship lvl 1. I envision it would look like the Lucrehulk-class battleship From Star Wars (the ones the Trade Federation used in the blockade of Naboo).

  • No ability to use Drone Control Units.
  • Can fit (1) Gang Module (more if you use Command Processors, like T1 BC's).
  • No Capital anything, no CovOps Cloak, no Jump Drive, no Clone Vat, etc.

    • Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
    +7.5% Drone Damage and +15% Drone hitpoints
    +25mb Bandwidth and +50m3 Drone Bay

    Role Bonus:
    +37.5% Drone Optimal and Tracking (and MWD Speed?)

    Slot layout: 5H, 8M, 6L; 0 turrets , 0 launchers
    Fittings: 6500 PWG, 700 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200 / 7500 / 9000
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000 / 1100s / 5.51
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 96 / .1254 / 100250000 / 16.88s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 350
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km / 85 / 7
    Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
    Signature radius: 585





    Having a drone ship that looks like that one from Star Wars would be amazing. Who cares if it has 5 or 10 drones. If 5 just bump up the dmg-hp bonus to like 15% a level or something.
    Shereza
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #14 - 2013-06-05 03:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
    Part of the allure of having a sub-(super)carrier ship that can deploy more than five drones is that it would be relatively unique among ships. It would also potentially allow for differentiation between the races. For example the difference in drone boat philosophy between Amarr and Gallente ships is supposed to be that Gallente ships deploy more/bigger drones, but Amarr ships have more "reloads" at maximum dispersal.

    The problem is that at the battleship level both the Armageddon and Dominix will have identical bandwidth and drone bay values. It's already been stated that reducing the number of drones that the Armageddon can deploy is a sub-optimal way of demonstrating the difference in design philosophies, and there aren't any drones (fighters/bombers not, technically, being drones) that require more than 25mb bandwidth to control.

    There are two obvious possible solutions to that problem.
    #1 Introduce a fifth class of combat drones that require more than 25mb to operate and raise the Dominix's bandwidth accordingly.
    #2 Give the dominix 150mb bandwidth and a role bonus of +1 controllable drones.

    Both solutions would allow the dominix to hold true to the Gallente design philosophy when compared to the Armageddon, but #2 would be a much easier solution to both implement, test, and balance than introducing a "super-heavy" class of combat drones.

    That said I'd really like to see some balancing passes done to the existing T2 battleships before new ones are introduced. Given that one of the Widow's bonuses is to ECM strength while the corresponding bonus on the Redeemer is to laser tracking speed it suggests that the Redeemer should be more combat-focused, but the difference in combat effectiveness between the Redeemer and Paladin is, build depending, really quite small while the difference in combat effectiveness between the Widow and Golem is fairly sizable.

    I'm by no means saying that black ops ships should always be inferior to marauders in terms of combat potential, but I'd rather CCP implement any changes they've considered in how the ship classes interrelate with the other for their respective race as well as with the other ships in their respective classes before implementing new T2 battleships.

    Also, before mini-carriers I'd like to see battleship class logistics ships. Something that applies the marauder/pirate (specifically Sansha and Blood Raider) design element of fewer high slot modules that are twice as powerful as normal. In other words double rep strength role bonuses. The capacitor usage reduction bonuses can probably be scrapped on the battleships and replaced with tanking bonuses (race-specific meaning Amarr/Caldari get resistance, Gallente/Minmatar get boosting) to increase survivability under the inevitable primarying they'll receive. With the advent of the MJD it seems to me that there is at least some potential for groups of fast-moving/locking logistics battleships.

    Another battleship platform I'd like to see in a T2 format is one dedicated to taking out smaller warship classes. We've got the (formerly) tier 3 battlecruisers allowing you to "upsize" your guns, and I'd like to see some downsizing available to a T2 battleship hull. The current battlecruisers function more as heavy cruisers and mini-command platforms than they do as upgraded versions of destroyers, and rather than repurpose them an anti-cruiser battleship platform strikes me as being potentially more interesting. Give them bonuses to medium turrets/launchers to make them more effective against hitting cruiser-sized targets. It might also be interesting to see them with bonuses to modules like remote sensor boosters, tracking links, and remote ECCM rather than give them defensive bonuses.