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Drone UI?

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AbhChallenger
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-06-01 07:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: AbhChallenger
I don't want to try to pass off other people's ideas as my own so I will not use the format . I will just say my thoughts on the matter.

There are many people who do not like drones. I can understand as in the past they were being used as AFK isk printing machines.

However, The change to aggro mechanics has badly punished those who were legitimately using drones for PVE content. Many argue that it is a fair price to pay for not having to rely on lock times like other weapon types. I disagree but I agree that we can't return to the days of AFK isk printing.

So I propose a deal. Lets agree to change drone mechanics so that PVP and PVE are separate behaviors for the sake of fairness.

In short I agree with those above who have said NPCs do not attack drones. In exchange I agree with others above that.

A) Drones will no longer automatically attack NPCs even defensively. Only player ships.
B) Drones will only attack an assigned NPC target that remains locked.

Yes that means drone PVE boats will have to start thinking about the time it takes to lock up smaller targets. Yet everyone else already has to do this and I think that being able to use medium and heavy drones without fear of them being WTF alphaed by unfair NPC aggression mechanics. And those who worry about drone abuse will know that drone users can't AFK mission or rat anymore.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#62 - 2013-06-01 10:00:45 UTC
Frake Lomes wrote:
After a few years + few more years of EVE, the most almost best sandbox spaceship game ever (10% truth rule),
are there any plans to fix the Drone UI?

If only there was a team dedicated to making the games UI better, a team which could be called:
Team SuperAwesomeBestFriendsForeverPinkZombieKitten or maybe it was simply Team Best Friends or somesuch.

Anyhows, I thought Drone UI fixes were in the CCPwerks at some point and we could have expected at least something to make drones a little more bearable for a few years now.

Can someone at least give me a slight glimmer of hope, just a tiny beacon of light....even if it is an inbound torpedo about make my day a little more interesting?


This^9000
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#63 - 2013-06-01 10:32:02 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:

This would put drone users on the same footing as users of all the other primary weapon systems, and it would have the side effect of allowing you to remove a whole lot of wonky and probably hard to maintain "drone AI" code.


It would also make drones obsolete as a weapons system. If there is no difference, what's the point?
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#64 - 2013-06-01 10:54:57 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Ok, I usually don't go into design methodologies on the forums but I'm in a Friday kind of mood so let's just try this together for fun.

Imagine just for a second that there are no Drones in EVE and there never was a Drone Management System.
Now imagine you are coming up with ideas for such a system..


  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?
  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.
  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?
  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference
  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using


Have fun! o7


Or how about we don't imagine there were no drones and fix the existing system instead?
Because for the most part it's not as bad as some people make it.

Simple tweaks:
- Make it possible to pull drones into the F1-Fx slots just like an active module. Hitting the corresponding key will then activate the drone's basic function (attack/mine/repair). Right clicking the button will allow drone commands like return etc.
- if the UI doesn't support the above, simply create an invisible temporary control module for every launched drone on launch and destroy on control loss (warp/recall to bay)

- give us a way to assign an attack profile (priority order for frigs/cruisers/BS) to a drone group or launched drone

- give us a way to set a threshold on shields/armor to activate auto return


If the rest stays as it is, that would already cover 95% of my headaches with drones.
Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
#65 - 2013-06-01 10:57:17 UTC
lil story: I remember when I was a complete newbie in EVE (no worries, I'm still a semi-complete noob), like 2-3 months old and with no clue of what a carrier was or about which was the mistery lying behind words like sensor strenght, firewall bs and such...... it happened that CCP dared to send out one of those polls and it asked about suggests for a better EVE. Now, with nothing much to say I just wrote: Drone UI :D

2 years later, a dev is at least confirming he wrote something to for testing purposes \o/

__________________________ just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-06-01 11:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: poppeteer
Gotta think hard before giving you what you ask, CCP Arrow, however having seen it not answered, and this particular example not referenced, I must say re Question 4;

Inspiration
Andromeda (tv sci-fi); sensor, offensive/defensive ECM, attack, repair, guard, etc

http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/Sensor_Drone
http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=drones&fulltext=Search
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-06-01 11:18:08 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
I can't make any promises, but I've worked on many mockups and ideas for a brand new Drone UI and I would love to work on it's implementation with my team Game of Drones in the near future.

All I can say is keep up the good work of giving us ideas for it and know that the right people are listening Smile


Fix it!
Jake Tzestu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-06-01 11:25:54 UTC
just a thought....i always assumed that scanning probes were drones that scanned so why can we not have a combined UI that covers both probes and drones.

Now that we have preset probe settings it shouldnt be that hard to make the same work for launching combat drones.


Just thinking out loud.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-06-01 12:37:30 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Ok, I usually don't go into design methodologies on the forums but I'm in a Friday kind of mood so let's just try this together for fun.

Imagine just for a second that there are no Drones in EVE and there never was a Drone Management System.
Now imagine you are coming up with ideas for such a system..


  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?
  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.
  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?
  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference
  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using


Have fun! o7

Single most important need - To perform the intended function of the drone type selected.

Usefulness - the usefulness would be having that function carried out.

How do you want to control it - minimal supervision. It should be on par with the requirement to reduce traversal, reload, manage cap when using guns.

Sci-fi Movie - drones in stargate universe.

Good existing system - fighters, fighters warp, drones would benefit from this system too and functionally its not really an OP thing or in anyway game changing. Its simply convenient and inline with all other weapons systems in EvE.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#70 - 2013-06-01 16:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
Imagine you are coming up with ideas for a Drone Management System.

  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?
    2. Easily and quickly order your little drone minions to do tasks, either individually or by group: Launch, Attack, Salvage, Return and Orbit, Return to Bay

  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.
    3. I want you to give drones some limited AI. I want them to have a more realistic degree of autonomy, which you could accomplish with more detailed orders. Set an order on your primary drone group, "Aggressively pick targets as soon as you launch, unless I give you a specific target." And set a different one on your sentries, "Recall myself to drone bay if the ship starts moving faster than 30km/s." Or, "Return to drone bay once my shields hit 50%."

  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?
    4. I want a hotkey to 'Launch Selected Drone Group'. I want hotkeys for 'Select Next/Prev Drone Group.' I want to put different types of drones in one group. And it should be easy to edit groups - perhaps ungrouped drones can automatically join a group to replace a drone of the same type, when that grouped drone dies. For those who don't like hotkeys, create pseudo-module buttons to can put in their HUD buttons to launch, recall, attack. For the more advanced orders functionality, you would need to create an interface where users specify nouns (myself, my sibling drones, my mothership, the target who's locked when this order is given) and actions (orbit, attack, salvage, etc) and conditions (HP threshhold, movement speed, on-launch).

  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference
    5. In Star Wars Episode I (at 51:50, 54:50, 1:16:20) Darth Maul lands on Tatooine and sends off some autonomous probe droids. They scout various locations then return to his ship with intel.

  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using
    6. You might be able to give FC's the same tools as players. The FC could define a set of orders, and choose what orders to actually issue to their fleet. Those might be "Undock and align to outgate" or "Set range at 1000m from your fleet superior"; the FC would issue these orders in combat, and players would receive an orders interface (like an upgrade of the Broadcasts window) showing current orders (and maybe also past or future orders.)


Further suggestions:
I'd like to see my drone hp bars when they're in my drone bay.
For that matter, shouldn't drone ships be able to slap some nanite paste on damaged drones to repair them in bay?
Perhaps if you have backup drones, you could order damaged drones them to stay onboard when their group launches (maybe your ship intelligently swaps grouped, damaged drones out for ungrouped, undamaged drones when a group docks.)

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Dax Buchanan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-06-01 16:39:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

1. Single most important need would be to be configurable by the user as the very use of drones suggests some automation objective to begin with. Users of drones should be able to configure how their drones respond to the environment and various conditions in that environment.


I really like the idea of them being programable.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-06-01 22:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
CCP Arrow wrote:
Ok, I usually don't go into design methodologies on the forums but I'm in a Friday kind of mood so let's just try this together for fun.

Imagine just for a second that there are no Drones in EVE and there never was a Drone Management System.
Now imagine you are coming up with ideas for such a system.. Have fun! o7



  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?

    2. Drones would be a weapon system. For many ships it would be a supplemental such as a split weapons platform but the very nature of drones would provide more utility, spreading the concept of split weapons into the other modules. Eg. TD, web, ECM, shield transfer. As such the feature needs to be as effective as any other module. Players make a trade off for this utility in the launch/flight time of drones. With that said, there is no reason that drones can't be used as a primary weapon. Missiles, for example have a delayed reaction due to flight time but make up for this with a selectable damage type and the lack of need to consider tracking. *hint: missiles are integrated with the current module UI.

  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.

    3. A feature such as this has the singular ability to augment fitting. I can widen my engagement envelope by using medium guns and a flight of light drones or fit a cap injector in my mids in lieu of a web because I have a flight of drones that can cover the effectiveness of that module. Scaling this idea up for use as a main weapon system is of particular importance to certain professions such as explorers, cloaky/probing scouts, dedicated neut ships & logi boats.

  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?

    4. This is the big question and weighs heavily on the answers to the other questions. We all want a seamless integration to the UI of drones both in flight and fitting. Granted the very nature of the beast requires a bit more usability than click on/off & OH but a properly executed integration shouldn't need its own window. If we are to use drones as a supplemental module then we should be able to control them like we do any other mod. I would put a launch/recall button on the HUD just like the other mods get, with the same key-binding ability as the others. You could have one for each group or a single button that you must load groups into like ammo. The recent reintegration of radial menus should easily cover the other orders that need to be given to drones. I second the idea floated earlier about a 5-sided wheel with HP bars & activity indicators for flights of drones. An extra drone "central HUD" such as the one that we use to monitor our HP/cap would allow us to do the same for a flight of drones. In fact, a scalable/anchorable "drone HUD" with key-bind' drone group buttons could replace the current iteration of the drone window beautifully.

  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference

    5. I don't really get this. Why look to sci-fi for inspiration when there are already so many real world applications of the tech. I would implore CCP to look at the drones currently in use for military and civil application for inspiration of both utility and form.

  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using

    6. Fitting


    edited to add more awesome sauce
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-06-02 01:02:48 UTC
User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?

my ship can do some stuff, it can't do other stuff. drones should be there to fill that gap

there should be a wide variety of stuff that drones can do, not limited to shooting stuff, direct support for myself and others and non-combat roles should also be viable options

drones in non-drone ships should not be very strong, drones in drone-ships should be serious business

Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.

more versatility in a whole lot of situations

Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?

I would rather be limited by the amount of drones i can use at once than by the absolute number of drones i can carry. there should be a difference between combat and non-combat drones in this context (non-combat dronescan launch from the cargohold but can't return ?)

launching drones: a radial menu (its ******* AWESOME !)

attacking/recalling: keybinds to rule them all

Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference

I like R2D2

i like the versatility the WOW shaman has with his totems

Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from

the usability of the radial menu
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#74 - 2013-06-02 01:07:04 UTC
AbhChallenger wrote:


A) Drones will no longer automatically attack NPCs even defensively. Only player ships.
B) Drones will only attack an assigned NPC target that remains locked.



Absolutely not. Drones are a counter to ECM. This would make Caldari ewar and Guristas rats OP.
AbhChallenger
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-06-02 01:57:23 UTC
That would be bit of a nerf for those who do those missions or rat in those regions. However, Nothing compared to the nerf to drone users after the new AI.

The reason I say no more auto attack in exchange for no more NPC targeting of drones is because just getting flat out no more NPC targeting would cause controversy on the forum and people going back to AFK mission isk printing. However as it stands now using medium and heavy drones is virtually worthless unless the NPC target is right in front of your nose and you know how to predict when to spam shift-R.

Also drones as a counter to ECM is a bit silly with the current system in my opinion. You cant order them to attack an unlocked target so they go off and do their own thing. If they get shot at and you have to bring it back it will just orbit until something else decides to shoot at you. Then you just have the advanced ones that just love to target your drones regardless.

Right now the situation is utterly unbalanced against primary drone users.
Rytell Tybat
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-06-18 16:39:23 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Ok, I usually don't go into design methodologies on the forums but I'm in a Friday kind of mood so let's just try this together for fun.

Imagine just for a second that there are no Drones in EVE and there never was a Drone Management System.
Now imagine you are coming up with ideas for such a system..


  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?
  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.
  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?
  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference
  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using


Have fun! o7

1. Add a new tactical element to combat (emphasis should be on fun Sci Fi gameplay).

2. Deploying different combinations of drones should offer specialised benefits. Making good choices of which drones to deploy and what combinations work should be the essence of drone combat (your opponent also has choose which drones to attack first). Right now, your decisions are mostly made in the station hangar, when you fill your drone bay.

3. Drones should be easily controllable on 3 levels. Individually, grouped and all deployed. If possible a single click to issue a command on any of the 3 levels. Dragging and dropping from/into groups is also a big requirement.

4. Only thing I can think of offhand are the sentry guns in Aliens. Translating to EVE: small, cheap, deployable stationary automatic guns that don't need for you to lock, but attack all aggressors (easily disabled).

5. Something along the lines of a leadership drone that offers bonuses to either other ships, or even other drones (operating range?). Potentially frees up extra slot on your ship. Oh wait you said one "good" game mechanic. P Really only a possibility if leadership bonuses are changed to be on grid only.

There are so many possibilities and improvements that could be made for drones. Every facet of them really needs to be looked at. This method of re-imagining them from scratch seems like a great approach.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#77 - 2013-06-18 18:28:38 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Ok, I usually don't go into design methodologies on the forums but I'm in a Friday kind of mood so let's just try this together for fun.

Imagine just for a second that there are no Drones in EVE and there never was a Drone Management System.
Now imagine you are coming up with ideas for such a system..


  1. User Needs - What is the single most important need this feature should fulfill?
  2. Usefullness - Name one important thing you want this feature to do for your current game experience.
  3. Functionality - How do you want to control this feature?
  4. Inspiration - Give one example of something from a Sci-fi movie you think should be used as a reference
  5. Potential - Name one good game mechanic currently existing in EVE which this feature could benefit from using


Have fun! o7


1. Combat. Reps and salvaging are nice, but .. see Inspiration

2. Add more strategy by allowing different drone-fleet composition and bring a whole new set of "rules" to ranged (100km or so) battles.

3. Icons with hot-keys

4. The volatile battles between ships using versatile high power expandable drones in the Reality Dysfunction series by Peter F. Hamilton.

5. Warping to a pre-set distance other than 0m. Let pilots focus on navigation, MWDs, ABs, etc. while the drones do the dps, ecm, eccm, etc.

When I started Eve, my original character was Gallente because, as I was somewhat misinformed, the Gallente were the ones who used drones the most. The PvP battles, and much of PvE where you have to be scraping hulls in order to be in range are fine, but in my experience so far, that's all there is. Kiting happens, and sniping does on occasion, but the majority of PvP is about who can reach out and key the other guys hull first.
I'd like to see battles won/lost based purely on drone activity. One guy loads 80 full dps drones, while the other loads 40dps and 40ECM, then as they pop one by one, and replacements start to deplete, the guy with the ECM drones starts to come out on top because he chose a drone augmentation module while the other guy opted for armor plates on his own hull. Meanwhile, while the drones are battling, the two primary ships approach and it then comes down to the in-your-face battle with the drones flying around like a mad nest of hornets.
I'd like to see the total number of controlled drones increased to 10, drone bays increased in size while drone size is decreased. Make them harder hitting, more vulnerable, and dirt cheap expendable. Turn drones into something more like AI driven purpose-configurable ammo.

Profit favors the prepared
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#78 - 2013-06-18 18:29:52 UTC
I'm too stupid to interpret and respond appropriately to the five questions asked by our benevolent dev, so I will respond as briefly as I can with the features I would embrace:

A. Do not remove aggressive mode, as has been suggested. If you don't know why this is a good thing, then you've never successfully used it to run off an ECM ship while jammed. Keep it optional. Make the option actually work when it is supposed to. Aggressive drones should be aggressive. Passive drones should be passive. And they should know in rudimentary fashion what thing to attack in lieu of having a locked target. ECM > Highest incoming DPS > Etc. My drones are not rogue drones. They should do what they are told.

B. From a UI standpoint, I would love for grouped drones to be slottable like grouped weapons. They should become a clickable icon that can be assigned to a hotkey. On/Launch Off/Recall. A radial menu with common drone functions for each of these 'buttons' would be fantastic. Single function hot-swapping should be enabled. If I have my 'F1' group in space, and then activate my 'F2' group, the first group should return to bay and the second launch (and possibly engage) automatically.

C. Default state for non-engaged drones. Give them a short timer between engagements; if it runs out, then do what is set default. Loiter in space, or return and orbit as is your preference.

D. The drone interface window should provide watchlist stats on every drone in the bay, just as it does the ones in space. Each drone/group of drones should have a launch icon in the management window similar to the warp icon in the new scanning interface. No right click dropdown needed to launch things not already on your hotbar. The drone management window should be 'lockable,' and subsequently have drag-and-drop for grouping drones. No more right clicking to assign drones to groups. Stacked drones should not behave like a single unit for this functionality. (Or alternatively, should unstack/unpackage when place in a drone bay.) I shouldn't have to launch them to separate them for grouping.

E. The ability to move drones into/out of your drone bay from cargo. Unavailable when under aggression, should take a good amount of time, cap, or likely both to accomplish. Would make it nice in null/FW systems where you don't have the option of docking up, or access to POS/Orca/Etc.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-06-19 09:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
I know it's actually just about the Drone UI, but I hope You can forgive me for posting other stuff I wanted for my drones for a long time, too.

I want an active module that repairs my drones while they're in my drone bay.
I want an easy way to see which drones in my drone bay are damaged.
That way I could actually begin to cycle my drones.

Drone groups with mixed drones and assignable hot keys to launch the drone groups would be nice.

A drone launch module that would allow me to launch drones at a target over a large distance... like a micro jump drive, just for drones.

Things like that would be cool...

Also a Drone that delivers chicks and booze.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#80 - 2013-06-19 15:24:09 UTC
Drone Bay 'Module'

Could we have a Drone Bay 'Module' that acts a bit like the probe launcher on the UI.

You can either drag drones onto it from the Drone Hangar to load it or use the rt-click menu similar to loading probes or weapon ammo.

When activated - whether by hotkey or lt-click:
Launches the drones that are loaded.

When re-activated recalls the active drones:
1. If the Drone Bay is empty they return to it
2. If the Drone Bay is occupied they return to the Drone Hangar, pilot can then launch the fresh drones from the Drone Bay.

Drones in the Drone Hangar can be repaired, but not those in the Drone Bay.