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Why is there no way for us to attack supply lines in eve?

First post
Author
James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
#501 - 2013-06-01 19:08:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James 420 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP dont agree with you.

They want 0.0 empires to be 99% self sufficient.


[citation needed]



CCPs white board.

Wow a whiteboard from 2011, thanks bud I'm sure most of this is implemented/haven't changed.
Also it's 99% by volume, which I agree with like I said, the problem is manufacturing from null to hs using ungankable jf to make profit in jita.
Null should have a 99% volume local production

Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT

James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
#502 - 2013-06-01 19:12:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
James 420 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP dont agree with you.

They want 0.0 empires to be 99% self sufficient.


[citation needed]


Trasnlation: I haven't even bother to read the thread that I am posting in.

Trasnlation: I'm not the only one having problem with reading comprehension it seems, thanks for posting a 2011 whiteboard it's cute and relevant. Roll

Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT

Firnas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#503 - 2013-06-01 19:12:12 UTC
I've been hearing people say "PvP is stagnant and boring right now" for almost a decade.

The real situation is that there are people who play who are stagnant and boring.


Be imaginative. Apply effort. Think through problems.


Then you kit up, fleet up, and go smash people and Bob's your uncle.
Bolow Santosi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#504 - 2013-06-01 19:13:35 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:

Why dose null have to be " the efficiency of highsec NPC stations"? Why do they have to be as good or better than high sec before you start using them?

Why cant we buff NULL industry but not better than highsec, and at the same time nurf the ability to move the easy built stuff in high sec to null. To the point its equal to do it ether way.

so now you have the option's, Do i

A. Buy in highsec and ship it down.

B. Build my own in Null.

C. Shoot the guy moving it down and take his.


Because until Nullsec is as good as or better at producing its needs it will always be more efficient to ship everything to highsec, produce it there and ship it out. Path of least resistance and all that.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#505 - 2013-06-01 19:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
James 420 wrote:

Wow a whiteboard from 2011


Thats still the plan.



James 420 wrote:

ungankable jf


If JF are ungankable, then why are three of the top 5 kills for this month so far JF?
James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
#506 - 2013-06-01 19:18:44 UTC
Firnas wrote:
I've been hearing people say "PvP is stagnant and boring right now" for almost a decade.

The real situation is that there are people who play who are stagnant and boring.


Be imaginative. Apply effort. Think through problems.


Then you kit up, fleet up, and go smash people and Bob's your uncle.

Not really, people are/have been stockpiling resources and they continue to do so, staling forever. It's impossible to kick most big alliances they have so much resources that people get bored of wars way before having stock issues.
Mark my words, situation will be the same in 5 years just look at who get elected for csm.
It's like people want this game to be boring and risk averse in null. Roll

Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#507 - 2013-06-01 19:18:50 UTC
James 420 wrote:

Trasnlation: I'm not the only one having problem with reading comprehension it seems, thanks for posting a 2011 whiteboard it's cute and relevant. Roll

I agree. It is relevant.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#508 - 2013-06-01 19:21:36 UTC
James 420 wrote:
Not really, people are/have been stockpiling resources and they continue to do so, staling forever. It's impossible to kick most big alliances they have so much resources that people get bored of wars way before having stock issues.
Mark my words, situation will be the same in 5 years just look at who get elected for csm.
It's like people want this game to be boring and risk averse in null. Roll

Hey, psst, hey, you, yeah, your tinfoil is showing! Quick, before anyone else notices!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#509 - 2013-06-01 19:21:57 UTC
James 420 wrote:
Risk averse superior industry seems like a good idea
It's not. It's what has caused this massive imbalance, and it needs to go. Industry must become a valid and viable target for corporations and alliances to go after.

Quote:
using your logic CCP should give JF for HS too.
They already have them, and they don't even need them. And no, that's your logic (whatever it is), not mine.

Quote:
99% is not fine.
Why not?

Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Why dose null have to be " the efficiency of highsec NPC stations"? Why do they have to be as good or better than high sec before you start using them?
Because otherwise they go ununsed and large swaths of game content is rendered meaningless. From a general design standpoint, it also makes no sense that the NPC-run areas offer more player freedom than the player-run ones, or that the area put into the game for the purpose of building empires doesn't let you construct the very cornerstone of such an empire — a proper, good old-fashioned military-industrial complex.

Quote:
Why cant we buff NULL industry but not better than highsec, and at the same time nurf the ability to move the easy built stuff in high sec to null.
Because there is no way to buff null to be better than highsec due to the inherent advantages that highsec provides, unless you give null industry such discounts on materials and costs that you've created a legal duping mechanism (at which point you've just broken the economy, which is particularly bad in a game where the economy is the engine that keeps the whole thing running).

You can't buff something to be better than free and (effectively) infinite. Instead, you have to remove the free-ness and infinte availability so that there is a level that you can actually be better than. Sure, there are some thing about highsec industry that can't be removed — station content access, for instance — but that just means that the other areas need to be adjusted even more so that there is a cost-benefit analysis to be had where you weigh the value of one aspect against the costs associated with gaining that particular advantage. In short, buffing cannot get us to “the point its equal to do it ether way” without breaking the game.
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#510 - 2013-06-01 19:22:52 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:




Why dose null have to be " the efficiency of highsec NPC stations"? Why do they have to be as good or better than high sec before you start using them?

Why cant we buff NULL industry but not better than highsec, and at the same time nurf the ability to move the easy built stuff in high sec to null. To the point its equal to do it ether way.

so now you have the option's, Do i

A. Buy in highsec and ship it down.

B. Build my own in Null.

C. Shoot the guy moving it down and take his.




Even adding more to this, right now you only have the option JUMP IT DOWN. To easy to do.


If you buff Null to the point they can do everything them self in there stations that it takes SC gangs to grind. < Must all ready be a big alliance to have any effect.


You have to change both or you end up with another problem.

Doing Only one or the other and you still don't give medium and small groups any thing to do.






So, by changing the way you move supply's from high sec, not over buffing Null industry/Fixing POS's.
You get more PvP action, things for med/small groups, farms and feilds, a feeling of home.

I see many gains for no true loss, yes there's change's but truly no loss.
James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
#511 - 2013-06-01 19:25:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James 420 wrote:

Wow a whiteboard from 2011


Thats still the plan.



James 420 wrote:

ungankable jf


If JF are ungankable, the why are three of the top 5 kills for this month so far JF?


Ahahaha, "still the plan" [citation needed] also more 90% of that whiteboard is not implemented yet or completely different so what's your point?
1 out of 200 jf is getting killed I bet they are the smartest jf pilots, also gee I wonder where they get killed and by who (I'm sure they are in npc corps and getting killed in null, oh wait).

Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#512 - 2013-06-01 19:27:37 UTC
if i recall correctly, 2011 was only two years ago
James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
#513 - 2013-06-01 19:28:43 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
if i recall correctly, 2011 was only two years ago

I bet you are a director of your alliance.

Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT

Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#514 - 2013-06-01 19:28:51 UTC
Gwenywell Shumuku wrote:
Because some genius decided it would be cool to have cyno-bridges and cyno-freighters, listening to the 0.0 "lazy" crowd.

There was a time, between freighter introduction and cyno-bridges (way before jumpfreighters), when 0.0 ppl hauled stuff in with large freighter convoys. I still have fraps footage of epic convois.

Yes, sometimes it was tedious, but heck what a thrill when hostiles tried to intercept you. I was lucky to be part of 2 campaigns where we had to do stuff like this, i will always remember.

Then ppl started to use Titans to bridge freighters (lol), the less rich used carriers (at least still having to cross high/lowsec) and later use cyno-bridge networks (the end of 0.0 logistics) and then jump-freighters (beating the already dead horse again eliminating even the highsec/lowsec jump).



In the modern age of cheap and fast alpha ships, you could never effectively defend a convoy, it takes about a dozen tornadoes to alpha a freighter and you cant defend really defend against alpha ships, they warp onto grid 60km or so from the freighter and the freighter dies instantly. Also you only need a webbing alt and said freighters can warp nearly instantly. You would also never be able to keep a modern nullsec empire supplied with freighter convoys, the jump freighter is a necessity for modern nullsec.

Odyssey will probably shift this balance a bit, Battleship production will likely shift to local builders and use locally sourced minerals. As nullsec alliances may end up with surplus ice from the ice mining changes they may end up shipping ice products back to highsec to sell to highsec dwellers.
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2013-06-01 19:31:48 UTC


Why CAN'T that change work?

If it was JUST has hard to ship it to null, as it was to just build it in null, Why would you not do it in null?

You would have the option to do ether.




you lose nothing, you gain the ability to DO null industry or still ship it in.


If you choose to ship it in you have the risk of it getting attacked.

If you choose to build it in null it has the same risk of getting attacked.



Why would you choose to do one of the other?
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#516 - 2013-06-01 19:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Stonecrusher Mortlock
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:


In the modern age of cheap and fast alpha ships, you could never effectively defend a convoy, it takes about a dozen tornadoes to alpha a freighter and you cant defend really defend against alpha ships, they warp onto grid 60km or so from the freighter and the freighter dies instantly. Also you only need a webbing alt and said freighters can warp nearly instantly. You would also never be able to keep a modern nullsec empire supplied with freighter convoys, the jump freighter is a necessity for modern nullsec.

Odyssey will probably shift this balance a bit, Battleship production will likely shift to local builders and use locally sourced minerals. As nullsec alliances may end up with surplus ice from the ice mining changes they may end up shipping ice products back to highsec to sell to highsec dwellers.


CCP has the basic code all ready in a certain item they just added to completely break the ability to effectively alpha ships.


Something needs to be done about the ability to alpha anything, THAT's a problem that needs fixed as well, but its hard to get people to admit it, and its even hard to get people to find a good way to fix it, CCP added a item that works towards that but failed to seed it properly, or make it effective enough.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#517 - 2013-06-01 19:36:02 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:


Why CAN'T that change work?

If it was JUST has hard to ship it to null, as it was to just build it in null, Why would you not do it in null?

You would have the option to do ether.




you lose nothing, you gain the ability to DO null industry or still ship it in.


If you choose to ship it in you have the risk of it getting attacked.

If you choose to build it in null it has the same risk of getting attacked.



Why would you choose to do one of the other?
For that to be an actual question, HS industry would have to be worse than today, and 0.0 industry would have to be better.
Or, of course, something like removing freighters and jumpfreighters from HS, and any jump-capable ship from LS.
I freely acknowledge that, if you make something so suicide-inducing that it makes people stop it or quit the game, everything that is not that is by comparison better. Not better by default, but better by comparison.
I would think CCP wants a game with active customers, though, so that's not an option.
Any other questions?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#518 - 2013-06-01 19:36:47 UTC
James 420 wrote:


so what's your point?


CCP want null to be 99% self sufficient.

James 420 wrote:
1 out of 200 jf is getting killed I bet they are the smartest jf pilots


Last month more JF died than freighters. Around 45% of these deaths were in lowsec/0.0.

Not exactly invincible are they?
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#519 - 2013-06-01 19:39:09 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Something needs to be done about the ability to alpha anything, THAT's a problem that needs fixed as well, but its hard to get people to admit it, and its even hard to get people to find a good way to fix it, CCP added a item that works towards that but failed to seed it properly, or make it effective enough.
Something needs to be done about the ability to gather 50 people in DPS ships. THAT's a problem that needs fixed as well...
Something needs to be done about the ability to gather 50 people in a corporation. THAT's a problem that needs to be fixed as well...
Something needs to be done about the ability to fleet up 50 miners for boosts. THAT's a problem that needs to be fixed as well...
Something needs to be done about the ability to talk with other people in local. THAT's a problem that needs to be fixed as well...

Why do you want to nerf multiplayer in a multiplayer game?
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2013-06-01 19:39:42 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:


Why CAN'T that change work?

If it was JUST has hard to ship it to null, as it was to just build it in null, Why would you not do it in null?

You would have the option to do ether.




you lose nothing, you gain the ability to DO null industry or still ship it in.


If you choose to ship it in you have the risk of it getting attacked.

If you choose to build it in null it has the same risk of getting attacked.



Why would you choose to do one of the other?
For that to be an actual question, HS industry would have to be worse than today, and 0.0 industry would have to be better.
Or, of course, something like removing freighters and jumpfreighters from HS, and any jump-capable ship from LS.
I freely acknowledge that, if you make something so suicide-inducing that it makes people stop it or quit the game, everything that is not that is by comparison better. Not better by default, but better by comparison.
I would think CCP wants a game with active customers, though, so that's not an option.
Any other questions?




Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Let me get this right.


Absolutely None of the 1000's of players in high sec would be willing to take there places?


Now who's mad hatter insane sounding?



Your honestly wanting me to believe that with least amount of added risk to your high sec supply lines you will just give up and quit?



You know what i think if this change happened you would suck it up and adapt to it.


But even if i'm wrong, and you will leave because of it, there's others to replace you.