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Exploration now officially sucks.

Author
De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Snuffed Out
#61 - 2013-05-31 16:21:31 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Kali Maat wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Kali Maat wrote:
(STUF...)
I understand people that want Eve to stay complicated..
But I don't..
I want this game to have 10x more players within the next 5 years
now THAT would be awesome.
and it's not gonna happen unless they make more and more features more accessible.


Many don't like PvP why not just make another server for just PVE. It would gain 10x the people!

IMO PVP is not the problem..Ù
and instancing Eve would be the biggest mistake of CCP (after walk in station and Dust..)


So what your saying is that changing what made a certain game what it is, would be a mistake?


Making things difficult for the sake of making them difficult is always a dumbass move. CCP has steadily made the barrier to entry to certain activies lower so that they can attract more people to that way of playing, thereby increasing (hopefully) the number of players who play the game. Despite the protestations to the contrary, "dumbing down" the scanning system is not going to kill Eve, or even harm it in any meaningful way.

Splitting the world into two realms would kill it dead in no time at all. The two things really aren't comparable.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#62 - 2013-05-31 16:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
De'Veldrin wrote:

Making things difficult for the sake of making them difficult is always a dumbass move. CCP has steadily made the barrier to entry to certain activies lower so that they can attract more people to that way of playing, thereby increasing (hopefully) the number of players who play the game. Despite the protestations to the contrary, "dumbing down" the scanning system is not going to kill Eve, or even harm it in any meaningful way.

Splitting the world into two realms would kill it dead in no time at all. The two things really aren't comparable.


The whole point of probing is to organize probes into a certain formation to find a site, the change removed the need of having to move probes into a certain formation. It isn't difficult for the sake of being difficult, it's kind of the whole point of the system.

It's not that the probing system has been dumbed down, it's more the direction they have been taking with some of the changes lately which is removing the complexity/style in which many got into the game because of. Removing what makes the game unique can kill it in the same way that splitting realms can.

No I'm not saying Eve is dying, its that if CCP continues down the path of changing things to make them "everyone can do it asap" and instant gratification, then Eve will be no different then any other themepark MMO.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#63 - 2013-05-31 16:48:15 UTC
I for one, loathe the changes in exploration now, and feel like this ... hope people here can understand the hidden meaning within the video and my reasons for posting it.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Erloas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-05-31 17:53:34 UTC
I just recently started probing so I don't have a nostalgic history with it.
The new formations I think are nice because I found I was making the same formations again and again anyway. It wasn't exactly hard to figure out either, it took a bit of practice, not months, but just scanning down maybe a dozen sites. It is also not like there aren't a dozen guides online telling you what good formations to use are, it isn't some big secret.

There are only 2 changes I don't like so far. First is the changes to Grav sites just being there, but even then I don't see it as too big of a deal from an exploration standpoint. There were 2 distinct types of explorers, those looking for grav sites to mine at and those looking for everything else. Your scanning ship with analyzers and codebreakers that you are using to explore low-sec and null is probably not going to be switched out to a hulk to go mining and if you are looking for ore sites you don't care about the rest. I could see maybe them having a unique and much easier type of scanning, not quite the zero click auto-show up stuff coming now, but not old system either.

And the second change I don't like is that it shows all the sites in the system. It is nice not having to spent a minute dropping probes and spreading them out to make your first scan to realize nothing is in the system, but it kind of sucks that even people with no real desire to explore are going to see that they are there and probably scan them down just to make a quick buck. I see this as making it harder for people that really want to explore because even those less traveled systems are probably going to have their sites scanned down quickly. The change I would like to see here is that you only see sites that need to be scanned down if you take a few seconds and 1 click to do it (instead of the 30 seconds it takes now and the instantly it will be later) but that it only works if you have a scanning probe equipped on your ship. No need to send out all of your probes and line them all up just to see there is nothing in the system.
Haulie Berry
#65 - 2013-05-31 17:56:58 UTC
I'm not sure what I enjoy the most about the new system:

-The fact that I don't have to waste time dragging around little arrows anymore.
-The fact that I never have to see a grav sig again.
-The delicious tears being extracted from whinging numpties who desperately want to cling to the busy-work of the current system.
Joey Judas
On The Wicket
#66 - 2013-05-31 18:23:18 UTC
CCP have dumbed the game down chip by chip for a few years now, this is nothing new... -3 accounts and i can barely be arsed to log in this one these days. Oh well...
A Man Divided
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2013-05-31 21:24:40 UTC
Hi forum lurker here...this post tempted me...

So the rides over. It's been a great year and a half to be an explorer (for me). I won't welcome the new expac. Yes, I have checked out/tested the changes on SiSi. With the death of DSP I won't be bothering to scan down an entire region, sometimes two. Yes I do truely mean scanning every single solar system. For my prefered region it takes a little over 2+ hours with DSP.

The DSP chart is no secret, if you're band hunting it's amazing. For me the last row was all the information I ever needed from DSP. 10/10 combat plexs show up as .03 %.

Jump into a system use a dsp, which I spent the time training for that single item -_-, then see results. If no .03% then move on.

I can usually find one every day/24 hours. Sometimes two if I changed regions.

Went to plex hunt on the test server in the same area and fashion I would if it where live. Wow it was aweful. All those dumb .24 signels have to scanned or you will miss what you are actually looking for.

Radar/mag/whatever (except ladars that can drop a skillbook) are worthless in my own opinion. In the case of 10/10s there is usually only one per an entire region. Despite what you can google I don't believe it instantly respawns after completion but can take up to 12hours for a new one. But it can respawn a few minutes later certainly. It has happened to me. I have also done it where I completed the plex and then rescanned the entire region as in all solar systems and still no respawn. After finding one these days I call it quits for the next 12-24 hours.

Before DSP and refining my own methods and habits, I'd be lucky to find more than one 10/10 per month. I don't miss those days of feeling hopeless. These days it's more like 5-7 per week but only do 1-3 because of competition/hostile/busy solar systems. But I take this any day to the huge time sink it was before.

For a specialized niche explorer the patch will kill me. Oh well. It supported all my expensive ship buying and subs for 3 accounts.
I never plan to pay my subs with real money (and never have). Hopefully the moving towards max trade skills toon I have will work out.

Did they dumb scanning down? Yes.
Do I think it will make new players pick up exploring? No, not worthwhile signels. Most of exploring is total crap.
Is exploration a huge time sink? Yes
Is exploration going to be more of a huge time sink? Definitly, if you want to make money that is.
For the the most part these changes hurt the long time scanners.
I'm at work hence the rant.
/rant off

PS Like St. Mio said, its been a good run so long and thanks for all the fish. (And all the billions of ISK)
PPS St. Mio please break this crap patch by making band filtering work with combats.
PPPS Screw whoever at CCP who brought up removing deep space probes.

O///////////
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-05-31 21:45:27 UTC
A Man Divided wrote:
Hi *snip*


I want your stuff.

You have 4 options. Put everything you own in either Amarr, Dodixie, Jita or Rens, then contract them all to Heinel Coventina. For you troubles, I'll pay you 1 isk.

Do it within today, and I'll double that to 2 isk.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-05-31 21:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
ahaha wrong thread.
Haulin Gneiss
ARAZ Engineering
The Sigil Of Baphomet
#70 - 2013-05-31 22:06:24 UTC
Anyura wrote:
You heard it here folks! This isn't just some random forum persons opinion, derived from a few seconds thought while on the toilet, Exploration now *OFFICIALLY* sucks!


Yeah...I only spent a week logged into SiSi testing and what not so you can hold your comments. Fact is, the exploration expansion is about putting as much content in the face of the noob player (increase new subs from playstation) so they don't have to discover all of the intricacies over time.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-06-01 01:05:14 UTC
For those that don't know what the changes are. Seamus Donahue from E-Uni did a training video on the changes showing how they work with some combat probes, also all 3 new modules.

Odyssey Probes on Singularity
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-06-01 01:10:42 UTC
Nitrogen Isotopes wrote:
Zak Breen wrote:
People complained that exploration was too complicated.


Citation needed.



Complaining about loot value bugs etc yes, but complaining exploration was hard to get no, rather boring and faster for the prober to get the ship doing the exploration than the explorer to find the site. This is just making this hunt "game" far easier.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#73 - 2013-06-01 01:19:15 UTC
Zak Breen wrote:
People complained that exploration was too complicated.

Now they are complaining it is too dumbed down.

Why can't you just be happy? What?


Moving gravimetric signatures to "ore site" anomalies has removed some significant exploration content. It's as simple as that.

So with one hand CCP gives us the cool system scanner overlay & improved probing mechanics & give away probing advantages like candy (everyone can use 8 probes, and train the 1 skill to get all the advantages), but with the other hand they take away stuff to discover.

Can you see a reason for highly trained explorers to complain? Imagine if all your fittings skills were merged into "Core Fitting" which gave +5% per level to PG, CPU, shield capacity, armour strength and passive resistances? What if "Weapon Usage" replaced WU, AWU, Rapid Firing, Controlled Bursts, Gunnery, Motion Prediction and Sharpshooter skills? Wouldn't you complain about the complexity of the game being removed?
Haulie Berry
#74 - 2013-06-01 01:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Mara Rinn wrote:
Zak Breen wrote:
People complained that exploration was too complicated.

Now they are complaining it is too dumbed down.

Why can't you just be happy? What?


Moving gravimetric signatures to "ore site" anomalies has removed some significant exploration content. It's as simple as that.

So with one hand CCP gives us the cool system scanner overlay & improved probing mechanics & give away probing advantages like candy (everyone can use 8 probes, and train the 1 skill to get half the advantages), but with the other hand they take away stuff to discover.


Hi. I noticed you were completely full of ****, so I fixed it for you. You're welcome.

Seriously, though - I vaguely recall you being a quasi-respectable poster once upon a time. Now you've skipped right past shitposting to flat out lying about the mechanics of the changes in a blatantly obvious and trivially refuted way. Maybe it's time to take a step back?

Or, I know. Maybe we need a new scannable sig to replace the grav sites, just for you. It can have an old-style hackable can that will contain the last vestiges of your integrity. Lol



Quote:

Can you see a reason for highly trained explorers to complain? Imagine if all your fittings skills were merged into "Core Fitting" which gave +5% per level to PG, CPU, shield capacity, armour strength and passive resistances? What if "Weapon Usage" replaced WU, AWU, Rapid Firing, Controlled Bursts, Gunnery, Motion Prediction and Sharpshooter skills? Wouldn't you complain about the complexity of the game being removed?


Perfect probing skills here... on two different characters.

Perfectly fine with this change, but then I never suffered from the hilarious delusion that there was anything complex about probing, so from my perspective it's going from a simple system, to a marginally different simple system.

Also pretty content with never having to "discover" another completely uninteresting mass of rocks in space. Complaining about that is like complaining that the mean mean oncologist took your cancer away.
Winterblink
#75 - 2013-06-02 14:37:39 UTC
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:
Using that same logic, why not allow new players to fly carriers with a week of training? They are already lowering the the price of admission to fly an Orco. They are doing the same with scanning. I have spent some significant time training scanning skills on two toons. That time will be wasted come Odyssey.

That's an apples to orangutans comparison and you know it.

Mocam wrote:

To winterblink - bunk.

They've been around longer than I have so should remember the early steps.

*snip*

This isn't a "first step" by a long shot and is 1 more easing of things.

In no way am I insinuating this is a first step with regards to scanning/probing, I was referring to it being a first step of their revamp of the concept. This is definitely a massive change from what the original vision and implementation has been.

When I first saw what they were planning on doing I had some serious trepidation about it, considering how it DOES come off as a complete rework and dumb-down. And it is. If this was done for the sake of dumbing down alone I'd be all up in their face about it, but that's at odds with my own personal opinion that this game lacks the magnitude of "exploration" as the game deserves.

IF this is a means to that end then I can get behind it. If it sits at Exploration Revamp 1.0 and they never iterate on it, I'll be first in line to rub it in their faces as a **** idea. ;)
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-06-02 14:42:38 UTC
“Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
― Albert Einstein

KasparHauser
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-06-03 09:35:09 UTC
Are people annoyed about the new mechanics or the fact that they will have more competition now?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-06-03 09:42:57 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
so what you say is that more clicks made the feature better in past?

Pretty sure the OP is saying knowing everything in system related to exploration takes the exploration part out of their game. Defeating the exploration component entirely. I agree. More Wowification.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Sugar Von MurdererTits
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-06-03 10:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Von MurdererTits
Zak Breen wrote:
People complained that exploration was too complicated.

Now they are complaining it is too dumbed down.

Why can't you just be happy? What?


I was actually pretty happy with it the way it was. I generally trust that CCP will get things right in these expansions but I don't believe exploration needed to be made even more accessible. I liked that it was something that required some effort to learn and training time invested, and I liked the aspect that there was something 'hidden' and 'mysterious' in the game that I could scan down and find. In short, I liked exploring the unknown, in however limited a fashion that can be in a game like this.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-06-03 10:56:51 UTC
KasparHauser wrote:
Are people annoyed about the new mechanics or the fact that they will have more competition now?


Probing should be a mini game the require "human skill" to be good at, the new system just turns exploration completely into a race for the loot. They are taking the exploration element out of exploration and just turning into a different version of normal missions, which is why i dislike the new system.

As for competition... exploration in high-sec is already overpopulated, don't think it's going to get much worse.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.