Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The problem with that analysis is that it doesn't factor in the absolute cost of the rigs, which is going to be so high that carriers & dreads won't be able to use them unless the pilot is silly rich, which is an indirect nerf to those entire classes of ship. Those rigs are also (at least in my experience) primarily used on T2 versions of ships, where the relative cost of the rigs as compared to the T2 or T3 hull is reasonable, while T2 capital ships simply don't exist, resulting in the lack of a standard capital for which the price is affordable.

Let me ask this: is it your intention that, for practical purposes, T2 capital rigs will be solely fit on super-caps, and henceforth carriers & dreads will have almost exclusively T1 rigs?

It's a fair point, though it's a class of rigs that will see even more limited use. Frankly, the wildly differing cost of the salvage components is the real culprit here.

Frankly, the whole T2 rig use is completely borked anyway. There's so little that's either a) useful or b) cost effective. What will be entertaining to watch is the (lack of) volume of the T2 capital rig market post patch.

I for one am glad that after all the Odyssey changes, cap ships will probably be less viable and thus less prevalent.

If you end up making a Jump range rig, add a Large version as well so Black ops can get some much needed attention.

I guess the point I was trying to make here is that by releasing a single capital class rig they are giving supers/titans a huge advantage in terms of rig price that no other ship in the game has. A fancy pirate BS can be T2 rigged for an amount near equal to its hull cost. Right now using large rigs a carrier pilot could do the same. If I wanted to T2 rig a T1 BS it's gonna cost 8-10x the hull cost.

After the capital rigs are introduced a carrier could be T2 rigged for 3-5x it's hull cost. However, a super can be T2 rigged for less than 1/3 of its hull cost. For a Titan the percentage is even smaller, like 1/6 hull cost. They will be the only two ship classes in the game that can be T2 rigged for a small fraction of the cost of the hull. Yes, it's less absurd than the current cost of large T2 rigs vs Titan/super hull cost, but the cost is still broken relative to other ships in the game. This seems like a rush job an not well thought out. Two classes of capital rigs should have been introduced and the T2 salvage drops needed to be buffed to help accommodate the absurd increase in materials requirements.

You are right but not for the reasons you think.

I'd put T2 e-war on a Maulus. Ignore Jita prices on small Inverted signal field Projector rigs. They are inflated but it doesn't matter. Calibration is 300 per rig so I won't be putting one on anyway. Once you put all factors in place, we really don't have that much choice in what we rig our ships with.

Where on earth do you get those numbers?

Capital rigs will be 5x the price of large rigs.
T1 Large CCC = 12M, times five yields your 60M.
T2 Large CCC = 200M, times five yields 1/8ths of your 8B ...

Can't even be explained away as a typo because 1 is in the other end of the number row .. even if you used a number pad the typo excuse dies in the crib.

There will be a slight increase in rig prices across the board due to higher consumption of capital rigs, but they since don't exactly die in droves it will probably barely be noticeable and it will drop a lot once tiericide has run its course and made T2 competitive again thus increasing material availability .. if all else fails, we will lobby CCP for increased drop rates in exploration and from salvaging.

Until then, you just have to get used to the idea that capitals are T1 ships and are subject to the same kind of "unfairness" that all non-capitals T1 pilots lives with on a daily basis .. if that thought/reality does not sit well with you then invest in a bunch of replacement capitals and rig them with large (ie. what everyone else is doing at the moment) as CCP are too daft to make the change properly and de-rig everything.

PS: The ~10% difference you get from a couple of T2 rigs over T1 has zero impact except in small scale fighting where winners are in flames after every fight .. with capitals not exactly renowned for those kind of engagement this whole debate is rather pointless.

I bet the T2 rigs still only need lv4 skill to use .. a bit odd anyone?? .. lv5 comes to mind here

Supers and titan costs also make officer mods look like cheap t2 gear. They are somewhat special cases.

Carriers and dreads are the main block of capitals and it makes perfect sense for these.

I haven't read all 18 pages, but has anyone put forward the additional problem that the blue salvage required for T2 rigs is going to be a lot more expensive as well?

For example, mag sites in Period Basis currently dole out lots of Cap Consoles. The new Relic Site system means the supply of them will shorten quite dramatically. I've run a dozen or so Relic sites on SISI, in PB, with an alt, and they are fricking crap. Haven't found a single one :s