Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So your arguement is that a prophecy with a resist bonus tanks almost as much as a myrmidon. Alot of people say the same thing but you forgot to mention that the myrm does 3 times the dps while tanking.

Balance isn't about focusing on complaints, so the fact that no one has complained is totally irrelevant. That aside you are still taking this from a total focus on the implications of RR instead of the total affect of the nerf which have been accounted for and stated as intended consequences. Nerfing RR only works if RR is the ONLY issue related to resist bonuses.

I still can't see a single valid argument why it's bad to have a tanking bonus that's just better than another tanking bonus... Why make everything equal? What about other tanking factors like speed, sig, gank and soforth? Why are they almost completely disregarded/ignored by those who defend this nonsensical change?

This was me, on my phone, commenting before I think. I often forget how much better and different the prophecy has become with the battlecruiser balance. Without flying Battlecruisers much, I still have that image of 600 DPS coming out of a myrmidon and the prophecy struggling to get 200 DPS if fit to tank.

Looking at the numbers, however you want, the bonus for resist tank vs active tank is very similar. The only difference is that the resist bonus adds versatility. It doesn't really make it over shadow the active bonus. Nerfing the resist will only cause the two to be imbalanced in an active role. Thus making the resist bonus best suited to situations where a ship has all buffer and Remote Reps. It's about chasing your greatest strength.

The downside comes to ships that are specifically using this bonus to sustain a tank with active reppers. Changing the bonus to 4% actually changes very little. A rattlesnake that has 165k EHP and tanks 4485 DPS at lvl 5 and 5% bonus will still have 158k EHP and tank 4205 DPS at lvl 5 with 4% bonus. The only change that this would make is that a ship a local rep bonus is going to be far superior in that role.

Since versatility is the issue based on a resist bonus giving to the local rep as well as the EHP buffer. Would it not be better to add that same versatility to the Local rep bonus? Such as spliting the bonus to add to both local rep and Hitpoints the same way that drone ships give their bonus to drone's damage as well as durability.

By that logic the T1 Armageddon is also being changed back due to the flood of whines right? Also this change flies in the face of that conclusion as you yourself said. If you cherry pick examples to construct a pattern then yes, you can come up with any justification you want. When you look at this very thread you can see that all falls apart.

All the ships with resistance bonuses have their other stats like speed weaker than those that haven't got them. There's lots of things that tone them down. Also I haven't seen anybody serious active tanking prophecies. Even tho it gets better tank and paper due that one extra lowslot it has compared to brutix and prophecy, the lower dps makes it unactractive and in a 1v1 sitsuation you cannot kill anybody but buffer tanked ships that have no chance of docking or jumping a gate. Buffer fitted prophecy is far superior...

I'm just repeating myself as I wrote about this several posts earlier. Also I pointed out that this reverts all the balance changes done so far on frigs, cruisers and battlecruisers which were really well executed balance patches. Now that all was for nothing and gives us bunch of unactractive ships that are only viable in fleet pvp. "Only" might be too harsh cause some of the ships might still maintain some solo usefulness. After this patch I prefer ships that don't have the bonus unless some miracle happens and CCP decides to stop this MADNESS!

Nice troll attempt. Their tank is roughly the same and the dps isn't even close.

Nerfing Remote Rep does NOTHING to change the fact that the resist bonus is practically JUST AS GOOD as the active tanking bonus. Except now you're nerfing RR (you're correct CCP has stated it is borderline and therefor they don't want to mess with it much) to solve a problem that is contained entirely within ships bonuses. The active tank bonus should show an obvious difference in active tanking capabilities between comparable ships, but it doesn't. Even after this nerf the difference isn't what you'd initially expect considering they are repairing up to 37.5% more per cycle than the other ships (but after this the actual amount winds up being ~12% more local tank). The fact that resist bonused ships get a triple bonus (Local rep, remote rep, buffer fit) whereas local bonus ships only get LOCAL REP bonus compounds the issue. Remote rep isn't the problem, the amount they repair per cap is the same on a local rep bonused ship or a resist bonused ship. There's no difference. The problem is the resist bonus and/or the local rep bonus, where it could be mitigated by a slight boost to incoming rep amount, evening the playing field, which a lot of people have been discussing.

I would like to inquire about this logic. With the current meta favoring remote repairs over local tanks in 90% of all fights, with the exception being only small gang (where the resist bonus still applies and is still useful and is NOT overshadowed by the local rep bonus), why are you avoiding giving a slight boost to the incoming repairs by logistics?

In practice, the resist bonus is doing just that, it is providing a slight boost to the incoming repairs by logistics. Technically it's reducing the amount of damage that the ship is taking, therefore requiring less actual HP to be repaired, but the effects are the same. Giving a very small bonus to active rep bonuses also applying to incoming repairs wouldn't be making remote reps any more powerful, really. It would only make them more powerful to the ship with the local tank bonus, not anything else. Which, as stated earlier, is essentially what the resist bonus is doing.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how combining the two is going to make a Hyperion the sudden go-to ship for null sec sniper fleets instead of the Rokh. I can only see it as making the bonuses more equal, viable options for all aspects of PvP instead of still giving one a clear edge over the other.

To take this a step further, if the concern is that remote reps are already borderline OP, why not extend the local rep bonus to remote reps, and then, if necessary, adjust the power of remote reps downward? It doesn't make any sense to me that local tanking should take the hit to keep remote reps from becoming OP, especially since locally tanked ships will still be more vulnerable to alpha.

Put the two tanking styles on more-or-less equal footing; then, if the problem is the excessive power of remote reps, then fix that.