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At CCP, any Torp HAM range rebalance?

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Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#1 - 2013-05-29 17:15:08 UTC
so now that Cruise missiles got a look at, when will torpedos get a look at as well? specifically their range its my main concern, compared to HAM range, they got the same, which its given the size differences, strange.


will either torps get their range buffed (with a nerf to SB range bonus), or ham nerfed to make them look more balanced among them? currently getting torps to reach acceptable ranges its close to impossible specially given they are pretty slow and can get kitted with some ease and their DPS application its a huge drawback.

was it ignored or just an oversight from CCP? wont they get any change at all?
Rengerel en Distel
#2 - 2013-05-29 17:17:40 UTC
Torps are on the list, just not at the top. You can probably find the dev quote from Fozzie on it if you look for it.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Sarmatiko
#3 - 2013-05-29 17:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2013-05-29 17:37:39 UTC
So torps/HAMs need a range buff why? They are in balance with the other close range weapons.

Waaaaa.....I cant hit out 40km with my torps! Blasters/Pulse Lasers (with the exception of t2 pulse w/scorch) would like a word with you.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
#5 - 2013-05-29 18:15:55 UTC
Torps actually got nerfed about 4-5 years back because they were not in line with the other close-range missiles. IIRC they had a roughly 80km range on a Raven and hit for more damage than Cruises, but didn't get the missile bonuses from skills like the Cruises did.
Spurty
#6 - 2013-05-29 18:18:47 UTC
Well as long as I can fire TORPs the 30+ KM needed to POS bash, all is well in the World!

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-05-29 18:28:10 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Well as long as I can fire TORPs the 30+ KM needed to POS bash, all is well in the World!



silly Spurty, thats what cap stable, t1 crystal apocs are for
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#8 - 2013-05-30 12:19:00 UTC
if some people took the time to read they would notice my complain is mostly about consistency, specifically related with the fact torpedoes and HAM Got the same range, so either HAM need a range nerf or torps a range buff to compensate.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#9 - 2013-05-30 12:31:30 UTC
Consistency feels right but it isn't necessary, what's more important is application.

The question's are, what range do HAMs need to do their job and what range do Torps need to do their job?
If the answer to both questions is 30km then the range for both should be around 30km.

The primary issue with this is simply that the only dedicated torp boats (at present) have significant range bonuses which have, so far, been factored into the answers, whereas HAMs have always had several, more varied platforms - the question now is whether torps on Typhoons...etc have enough range to do their job.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#10 - 2013-05-30 12:33:24 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
if some people took the time to read they would notice my complain is mostly about consistency, specifically related with the fact torpedoes and HAM Got the same range, so either HAM need a range nerf or torps a range buff to compensate.


Balancing isn't done around pretty patterns of numbers, it's done around, well, balance. Arguing that HAMs need to be nerfed because torps have the same range, rather than based on any consideration of the effectiveness of HAMs and their launch platforms, is inane.

I'm not saying that neither torps nor HAMs need to be changed, only that your methodology is silly.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#11 - 2013-05-30 12:48:36 UTC
I'd like to see Torps get a velocity bonus - they are so fookin' slow. A range increase to 50 KM for standard T2 and say 70 KM for Jav wouldn't be OP TBH. Then all that is needed would be for the Golem to get a similar Explosive Radius Reduction bonus as the RNI and life would be grand.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-05-30 12:56:37 UTC
If you increase the range of torpedoes, then they intrude into the domain of the "long range" cruise missile.
If you increase the damage of cruise missiles, then they intrude into the domain of the "high damage" torpedo.

At least for PvE, torps are dead to me (as in Cruise Golem > Torp Golem) come Odyssey.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-05-30 15:13:34 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So torps/HAMs need a range buff why? They are in balance with the other close range weapons.

Waaaaa.....I cant hit out 40km with my torps! Blasters/Pulse Lasers (with the exception of t2 pulse w/scorch) would like a word with you.


Er, actually Megapulse with Scorch can easily exceed 40km. In fact you can get them over 100Km with a Foxcat-fitted Apoc.

HAMs have pretty good range for medium short range weapons though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#14 - 2013-05-30 15:15:51 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
If you increase the range of torpedoes, then they intrude into the domain of the "long range" cruise missile.


Except that there's a middle ground. 70KM for Javelins isn't taking the urine IMHO.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#15 - 2013-05-30 17:02:34 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
If you increase the range of torpedoes, then they intrude into the domain of the "long range" cruise missile.
If you increase the damage of cruise missiles, then they intrude into the domain of the "high damage" torpedo.

At least for PvE, torps are dead to me (as in Cruise Golem > Torp Golem) come Odyssey.




don't cruise missiles fly to 250kms on a raven?

I doubt 50km torps would intrude into that area. but as you said, cruise missiles are outdoing torpedos by a very high margin, and is not that cruise are op but that torps are quite gimped on range, the ONLY ships that can reach torpedos to decent range are SBs with a 20% bonus, and golems with their bonus plus rigs, oh and ravens with rigs as well, a weapon that makes rigs almost mandatory to reach its target does not sounds balanced to me.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-05-30 17:11:01 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So torps/HAMs need a range buff why? They are in balance with the other close range weapons.

Waaaaa.....I cant hit out 40km with my torps! Blasters/Pulse Lasers (with the exception of t2 pulse w/scorch) would like a word with you.

Can't speak for the others (as I simply don't know), but Mega Pulse Lasers with Scorch, Radio, Infra, Micro, and Standard crystals all easily exceed 40 km.

Edit: Need to add that it's in an Apoc... Important detail that I missed Oops. But my point is that there is a platform for Amarrians to use their short range weapons with decent range. Caldari (supposedly known for range), unfortunately, don't.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#17 - 2013-05-30 20:24:33 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So torps/HAMs need a range buff why? They are in balance with the other close range weapons.

Waaaaa.....I cant hit out 40km with my torps! Blasters/Pulse Lasers (with the exception of t2 pulse w/scorch) would like a word with you.

Can't speak for the others (as I simply don't know), but Mega Pulse Lasers with Scorch, Radio, Infra, Micro, and Standard crystals all easily exceed 40 km.

Edit: Need to add that it's in an Apoc... Important detail that I missed Oops. But my point is that there is a platform for Amarrians to use their short range weapons with decent range. Caldari (supposedly known for range), unfortunately, don't.



scorch allows an abaddon to fire at 60kms with scorch and dual tc (WITHOUT RIGS)

Barrage allows AC to fire to ludricrous range even with reduced damage you can hit up to 100km+.

Null allows to fire blasters at pretty nice range somewhere around the 40km with reduced damage, BUT! unlike torpedos, Blasters will TRUELY facemelt anyone on their operating range

while torpedoes still need the help of rigs + ship bonus + double if not triple target painting to really harm on their operating range.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-05-30 21:01:35 UTC
pulses, due to their stats are more akin to being a short-to-mid range weapon than truly short.

they do track slower than blasters at short range, but their tracking is perfect for mid-range usage.

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