Science & Industry

i am sure your gambit to seem like a very wise person indicating the correct answer instead of a twit that doesn't know anything trying to attack a point he doesn't like but can't argue against has managed to convince a single reader, because i am an incurable optimist

I kinda see what 1974 means, and I'm not sure I have the skills to articulate it, but here goes.

What you say above is a little garbled, but I think what you meant was -

"When available resources are finite, and demand exceeds those available resources, and the available rate of resource-gathering is already more than sufficient to gather those limited resources far faster than they become available, then the ability to gather resources even faster will not affect the price, because the price is fixed by the relationship between demand and available supply."

This is intended to be a fully amplified and expanded version of what you originally said, as best I understand it. And in fact, the second clause, ("and demand exceeds those available resources"), may not even be strictly necessary.

Basically, 1974 was nitpicking because you'd stated a limited version which, while true in this context, might not have been true in every situation.

Woof, that was a mouthful...

Ok. I'll throw some text at you just to try to show you how it is a bit more complicated.

The first thing where your statement was oversimplified concerns the available resources and supply.
You should realize that the available supply depends on how many times ice anomalies get cycled each day. In theory (with sufficient harvesting speed), ice anomalies can be mined 6 times a day. That means that in theory hisec can supply 96% of all ice where it currently supplies only 94%. So even though there is a finite resource per day (it is a renewable resource), that does not automaticly mean that there is insufficient supply to meet demand. In fact there already is a finite amount of ice available in Eve, but only a small fraction of all of this is extracted.

The problem is that in Eve not all those available resources are extracted. Available resources are irrelevant when players choose not to extract them. I think the correct economic term for this is 'Economically available suypply'. In my opinion harvesting speed is a relevant factor in this economically available supply and therefore has an effect on pricing.

Another complication is that how much ice is extracted depends on what players do. Harvesting speed and price are both variables that motivate players (isk/hr), but what will happen with Odyssey cannot be predicted. Nobody (incl CCP) knows how much ice will be extracted after Odyssey. (Someone might even be crazy enough to grab a destroyer and shoot some ice miners.)

Furthermore you should realize is that you focuss too much on hisec. Some ice will be mined outside hisec. As a result pricing may be affected by what happens outside hisec.

Not really. With a 4-hour respawn delay, there's room for six of those yeah. But you haven't allowed any time for the actual mining. Even if you only allow 12-15 minutes for a horde of raging ice miners to slag down 2500 blocks of ice, there's not room for six complete cycles in a day. I'm nitpicking a bit here, but I think the difference is significant. In truth, I imagine five or maybe five-and-a-half cycles a day is far more realistic.



Ah, pardon my skepticism, but do you have some numbers to back that up?



That depends on your definition of "available"



When everybody gets an across-the-board doubling of ice harvesting speed, there is no competitive advantage to anyone. The one situation I can think of in which your assertion might be true would be ninja ice mining. The ability to get in, **** the ice belt twice as fast, and GTFO will make a difference. But is ninja ice mining even viable?




Facetious comments aside, you're absolutely correct in saying that none of us know for sure WTF is going to happen.

"You focus too much on hi-sec" is a personal opinion. The rest of this is a truism. "Some ice will be mined outside hi-sec", egad! What a blindingly brilliant observation! I mean, really. Did you figure that out all by yourself, or did the co-pilot help? :)

Could you please demonstrate how this works in an ice anomaly, I can't seem to do it. Somehow the anomaly is empty before my cargo is full.

CCP Fozzie please tell something about systems that have more than one Ice belt before Odyssey. Are now every system that have Ice belt is limited to only one? Because from many hours i don't se other belts respawning in system that have before 3 Ice belts

So there's a bug in system "Talidal" should be 3 ice belts respawning, but only 1 respawn normal (checking since Odyssey launch)

I know but the problem is there's only one respawning.
Ice belt showing => mined => 4h break => show again => mined => 4h break and so on... Other 2 belts ain't showing at all.

*shrug* it's working fine where i am.

The highsec Amarrian systems that had multiple belts all have one version of the anoms, all other systems that had multiple belts have multiple anoms. (And a few highsec systems actually have more anoms than they had belts, as part of the balancing between volumes of racial ice available in highsec).

Sorry, I've realized I wasn't clear about that when I was discussing the changes to Amarrian highsec ice.