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Dev Blog: Probe Scanning and other Goodies for Odyssey

First post First post First post
Author
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#181 - 2013-05-29 01:40:53 UTC
Lorna Sicling wrote:
Quote:
As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.


So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.



On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted.

And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel?
Sassums
Repo Industries
#182 - 2013-05-29 02:01:07 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Lorna Sicling wrote:
Quote:
As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.


So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.



On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted.

And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel?


Except in WH space we dont have the luxory of Local Chat alerting us when there is an intruder. We'll just get killed right away.

So much for paying attention to that minor detail CCP.
Kuetlzelcoatl
#183 - 2013-05-29 02:10:34 UTC
I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes.
Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."

Change, change is good.
The best Eve players are the ones who adapt to change the quickest. Just as in life.
Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
Ghostbirds
#184 - 2013-05-29 02:40:38 UTC
When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.

Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.

But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.

So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?

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Acks
RONA Corporation
Blue Sun Interstellar Technologies
#185 - 2013-05-29 02:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Acks
Ok ...

Because I am just that fed up and becasue everyone who plays eve loves numbers, I went through and tabulated the sentiment / tone from the first 180 posts of this thread. I realize this is somewhat subjective. I rated posts in three categories:


  • Positive feedback on these specific changes
  • Negative feedback on these specific changes
  • Neutral feedback / questions on these specific changes or off topic comments / questions


A total of 100 points were allocated to each post. Clearly negative / positive responses got 100% respectively. Mixed responses got a % for good, bad, neutral based on the points made. Snarky comments got a mixed negative / neutral value based on intensity and topics covered.

Finally of the first 180 posts, 11 were Dev, CSM, or ISD responses which I filtered out. This means that there were a total of 16,900 total points available. Rounding results to the nearest % we get the following:


  • Good = 7%
  • Bad = 51%
  • Neutral / Off Topic= 42%


Draw your own conclusions.


Oh and before the CCP fanboys cry "Only angry people respond", There have been times where CCP does stuff we actually want and like that is well thought out. Those threads are almost exclusively positive.

EDIT: FYI I do like the pretty they are adding. I also like the theoretical ability to save probe configurations. That said, the mechanics changes proposed and the rampant dumbing down I take issue with. IE once again the 20% good is being drowned out by the 80% WTF
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#186 - 2013-05-29 03:26:07 UTC
Ehh....... I was truly excited about the coming changes, but I feel like you went too far.
It seems to me that in an effort of making scanning and exploration more "accessible" (nothing wrong with that) you overshot a bit and made it way too easy. Where's the challenge of exploration and scanning? Seems to me that it will become almost as boring as mining and missioning.

Oh well, we'll see when it comes out for real.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

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Popsikle
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2013-05-29 03:28:20 UTC
CCP Orion wrote:
Dino Boff wrote:
Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.

I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.

Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list?

yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.


So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK?

You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into.

You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into.

You are killing wh mining completely..

Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers....

But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!?
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2013-05-29 03:56:39 UTC
Popsikle wrote:
CCP Orion wrote:
Dino Boff wrote:
Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.

I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.

Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list?

yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.


So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK?

You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into.

You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into.

You are killing wh mining completely..

Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers....

But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!?

They are heavily invested in believing this shiny new thing is good. They have worked hard, and to a degree I like what I see. I also don't like what I see.

As an example of dumbing down, and how it is NOT crying wolf: Sandbox elements which could result in a failure state (for instance, running out of probes and getting stuck in a wormhole with no way to scan back to known space) are being removed. Part of the danger of Eve is that your own stupidity, ignorance, or inattention can get you stuck in a bad place with bad people doing bad things to you. Automatic recall of probes means this particular instance of failure state is now nigh impossible, unless someone accidentally jettisons all of their probes and loses the jetcan.

CCP, please consider that in a sandbox game, you need to have failure states for activities. It makes succeeding more rewarding.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#189 - 2013-05-29 04:09:08 UTC
+1 for the appropriate use of the word "grok". Blink

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Goosius Tal
Bacon Buccaneers League
#190 - 2013-05-29 04:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Goosius Tal
While having the formation probes thing is kind of handy the whole auto return/reconnect side is a bit far. I remember when WH's first came out that there where many people who took the initiative to scanning out stranded people and helping them return home for a fee...the quick way or long way in different cases but it was a sense of consequence to mess up. With the ability for cov ops to instantly launch all probes at once they will be even closer to impossible to find and kill.

If people say "oh noes" I forgot my probes now I am lost to bad. Let them deal with it by asking for help in chat channels or leaving their ship behind and podding themselves would be really nice for some one who eventually finds a nice new toy. It is the same thing as if they forgot to bookmark their exits, I hope CCP doesn't turn around and have an auto BM feature for WH's because it is to much trouble for players to save it themselves.

I never had a problem with scanning down grav sites using probes. Others have pointed out that it will be a problem for mining security reasons which I agree with. If people are to lazy to use probes then they should miss out on the rewards that probe scanning brings to the true explorers.

The new Hacking and archeology sites look like they will be interesting on the plus side. Please do not dumb down EVE to the point where there is no challenge or sense of accomplishment.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2013-05-29 05:48:29 UTC
Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:
I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes.
Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."

Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children
#192 - 2013-05-29 05:49:37 UTC
I want a new module: XL Secure Trashcan.
To throw away all my scanning skills and experience for other fools to use for just being there.

This will be the first time I petition for finding a exit.

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Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-05-29 05:53:32 UTC
Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#194 - 2013-05-29 05:57:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:
I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes.
Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."

Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down?
Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?


The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#195 - 2013-05-29 06:07:57 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:

The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.


Lol no. Barrier for entry remains exactly the same, being good was made easier.

.

TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#196 - 2013-05-29 06:15:57 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.



LOL never been in W-space huh? Empire, Hi, Lo & Null are NOT all of EvE. A huge risk, and a ton of fun are to be had in holes when either you forget to load a launcher, or screw the pooch and let your probes expire... Adventures in Holes can be a very interesting time for all involved... But, you wouldn't know anything about that now would you? LOL

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

AbsoluteHavoc
Hybrids of Steel
#197 - 2013-05-29 06:26:01 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Warwick Bentley wrote:
In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle.


I think the entire idea of recalling probes automatically was to address the loss of probes by people who don't know what they are doing.

Those of us who have been long term subscribers are part of a niche of players who like hard games. So EVE now has a population of people who like hard games: all 300 thousand of us who live on the planet. To expand out of this niche, EVE has to cater to people who like the single-shard science fiction universe, but don't like hard games.

The next stage of course is to remove probes as items in the game and just have the probe launcher always launch 8 probes. Then there's no need to recall probes to the ship for fear of losing them and stranding the player in unknown space.

It's unfair to new players to cause them to feel loss. It's especially unfair to have regions of space which are easily accessible but very easy to get lost in. I wonder how many potential subscribers have been scared off because EVE was such a harsh universe to play in?

We need to drop this fascination with EVE being a harsh, cold universe. We need to take better care of new players, and perhaps consider treating them with kid gloves from time to time, and picking up their toys for them when they forget to clean up after themselves.


GTFO
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#198 - 2013-05-29 06:34:42 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.

Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.

But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.

So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?


This, this and THIS! So much win...

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
#199 - 2013-05-29 06:46:39 UTC
¿Can we get some information on exact changes made to wormhole space?
Securis Unus
Pod Repo
#200 - 2013-05-29 07:03:53 UTC
Please allow us to save our own probe configuration.

Please fix it so the columns Distance, ID, Scan Group, Group, and Type can be adjusted in width instead of scaling with the whole scanner window.