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Tiericide complete?

First post First post First post
Author
Ginger Barbarella
#21 - 2013-05-24 21:02:28 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:
If you naming a ship after a three-headed hellhound, that beast needs to get close and nasty.


I couldn't agree with this more. The Cerb should cause fear in the hearts of anyone staring it down, and instead people laugh.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#22 - 2013-05-25 18:40:44 UTC
Bryla Jax wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:

And then Tech 2. Command ships are up first (some of the basic changes are already posted, like the Eos basically becoming a t2 Myrmidon), then either HACs or BLOPS- again, I don't think there's an official confirmation yet.


Do u have the link for the Eos discussion?


It was back with the Navy BC announcement.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2866592#post2866592
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-05-25 20:37:21 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Will tiericide of tech 1 ships be complete on June 4 when Odyssey launches? Should we look forward to tech 2 during an Odyssey point release, or has CCP stated that some other things will need to be balanced before (industrials, freighters, capitals)?


CCP have stated that the tiercide project will never be completed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mother Drone
Transcendent Breed
#24 - 2013-05-25 21:36:59 UTC

Of course not. Attack BCs and T3s are so terrible potent that it's hard to find new roles for T2 ships. HACs had their role in the past: faster and more agile than T1 cruisers and battlecruisers while being significantly more expensive. T3s can everything and that very very good on top of it. Attack BCs? Yeah mounting 8x large weapons on a slow cruiser or fast battlecruiser T1 hull .... great idea Ugh . T1 frigs, cruisers, BCs and T3 are so strong and powerfull atm that it's not enough just to find new roles for most T2 ships (ha good luck finding or creating new roles for all those ships) ... they have to become plain and simple stronger.


Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#25 - 2013-05-28 11:06:25 UTC
HACs should become better at their role: highly mobile and resillient dps platforms. Some lack the dmg, some the fitting some the speed, and some are utterly broken (im looking @ you caldari!). Most don't need THAT much changing imo, just some ajustments.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#26 - 2013-05-28 11:16:51 UTC
Think the zealot is the one great HAC. All HACs should be on that level in their distinctive niche!

I heard a rumor of a mwd-sig-bloom reduction... Is there a chance that some t2 ships are getting marauderised? (meaning half the turrets, twice the damage per turret) Think the resulting overheat performance should clearly set them apart.
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2013-05-28 15:43:15 UTC
I hope they look at Hacs after this patch, some of them are completly outdated:

Cerberus;
Eagle;
Sacrilege.

Those are the most obvious cases.

The sacrilege is the only hac out there not able to hit at more then 30-40Km without having to sacrifice one of the bonuses. TBH I would love it to see the bonuses extend to Heavy Missiles instead of just HAM's;

The Cerberus also needs more PG/CPU and a completly revamp on bonuses. The Flight time bonus is not really worth it with insta warping probes;

The poor eagle. Well that one really needs to be seen again from scratch. To slow, no drones etc. etc. etc. It's so outdated that I consider him on the list of "in danger species", since for ages I don't see one in space.

Overall all the HACS need some urgent attention from CCP. The only one I consider still "on pair" is the ishtar and that only because of recent drones upgrade changes.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-05-28 15:45:50 UTC
deimos is becoming obsolete due to it's very limited advantages over it's t1 counterpart and I feel there's not much use for a muninn either with the nado and rupture covering both aspects it's supposed to be good at.

Vaga has it's little niche along with the cynabal so it's still ok and I fully agree the caldari hacs need something, anything.

Not entirely sure with the sacrilege.
Number 17
COLD-Wing
#29 - 2013-05-29 13:36:03 UTC
I think the vagabond needs another mwd speed bonus, and a scan resolution bonus, to be a complete ship.
Then it would be really good at it's role, which is shooting t1 frigs and running away when anything bigger lands on grid.

Just my 0.02 isk.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-05-29 14:25:03 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
I see your ****** vaga and i raise you a ****** cerb


The cerb and eagle are both fine as they represent the Caldari design philosophy of being completely terrible.
Skurja Volpar
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#31 - 2013-05-30 07:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Skurja Volpar
All the sniper HACs feel pretty obsolete these days alongside tier3 BCs.

New, more unique roles would be cool, the best HACs take a key aspect of a races playstyle, and specialize around it (vaga/ishtar), while the worst have general roles that they are almost completely outshined at, by cheaper ships in (Muninn/Deimos).

And there's always the competition with the faction cruisers, which doesn't have to be an issue, as long as there's some equal tradeoff between the two rather than one being plain better for a similar price.

But for the most part, tiercide has been handled really well imo, looking forward to seeing the T2 changes, hoping for something more imaginative than drone damage Sac, and HAM Muninn, but I can't think of many other options.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#32 - 2013-05-30 08:00:57 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
deimos is becoming obsolete due to it's very limited advantages over it's t1 counterpart and I feel there's not much use for a muninn either with the nado and rupture covering both aspects it's supposed to be good at.

Vaga has it's little niche along with the cynabal so it's still ok and I fully agree the caldari hacs need something, anything.

Not entirely sure with the sacrilege.


Deimos is ok-ish. It does its intended job well enough (see my ealier post). Falloff bonus should become tracking though, and thorax-speed would be nice too, along with that 4th mid (remove the utility high?)
arty cane is essentially what a muninn should be, those two ships are overlapping way too much. Optimal bonus is a nice one though. Muninn needs more PG to actually fit a decent (armor) tank along with arties.
the Cyna needs a speednerf, period. Vaga should be the insane fast one, cyna the nimble one. Vaga also needs more PG, its silly you cant fit a standard shield/ac fit properly due to PG problems, while it has craploads of CPU to spare.
Sac is pretty good, could use more speed/less weight. maybe remove the drones and add an xtra launcher (not sure why heavy assault cruisers have utility highs anyway, if you want EWAR, get recons in your fleet). Its dps is rather limited currently, especially when you're bolstering its strong point: tank. moving that high to a low might be interesting too.

while im at it, here are my 2 isk on the other HACs:
Ishtar: brobably the best HAC currently, by far the most versatile one. its just a PITA to fit properly. give it some more CPU/PG
zealot: its silly that the omen does the same dps at higher speeds then the zealot. In fact, the only things is has over the omen is EHP and range. Give it a drone bay or an xtra highslot / turret hardpoint (I like the idea of a full laz0r gunboat tbh). The lack of a drone bay warrants a 16th slot. some more cap/cap regen would be nice too, to offset the draw of lasers.
The cerb is repairable. removing the flight time bonus and add a resist or shield HP bonus would go a long way. Remove the useless utility high to a mid should work wonders too. Make it faster and give it ALOT more PG. to fit it all. Increase its kinetic dmg bonus from 5 to 10% could work, or to give it a tad more flexebility, an xtra launcher, pretty much in line with the zealot.
Eagle just needs to be reworked from the ground up...

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-05-30 10:27:14 UTC
Where all the Interceptors discussion at?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-05-30 11:19:38 UTC
nvm
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2013-05-31 11:13:24 UTC
"Tiericide" is indeed close to completion, because that term specifically refers to cleaning up the legacy of ship tiers. As of Odyssey's release on Tuesday the industrials will be the last tiered ship in the game.

However as most of you know rebalancing is never done and we'll be tweaking every ship in the game and then coming back and tweaking them again. I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet, but keep an eye on the Features and Ideas forum for new stickies once we clear out the Odyssey ones after release.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#36 - 2013-05-31 11:17:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet.

Why not Ugh
LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-05-31 11:18:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
"Tiericide" is indeed close to completion, because that term specifically refers to cleaning up the legacy of ship tiers. As of Odyssey's release on Tuesday the industrials will be the last tiered ship in the game.

However as most of you know rebalancing is never done and we'll be tweaking every ship in the game and then coming back and tweaking them again. I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet, but keep an eye on the Features and Ideas forum for new stickies once we clear out the Odyssey ones after release.


CanĀ“t wait to see what you guys do with Pirate ships, especially cruisers. Also T2 ships are sure going to be interesting. Anyway good job, you keep us EFT-warriors busy.
Perihelion Olenard
#38 - 2013-05-31 11:22:54 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet.

Why not Ugh

If people are rage quitting over the Tracking Enhancer's range bonus getting reduced by 1/3 and ship resistance bonuses getting reduced by 1/5, can you imagine how many will rage quit if something else is announced?
Dave stark
#39 - 2013-05-31 11:52:19 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet.

Why not Ugh

If people are rage quitting over the Tracking Enhancer's range bonus getting reduced by 1/3 and ship resistance bonuses getting reduced by 1/5, can you imagine how many will rage quit if something else is announced?


if they're rage quitting over that, then i can't help but be amused.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2013-05-31 12:14:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
"Tiericide" is indeed close to completion, because that term specifically refers to cleaning up the legacy of ship tiers. As of Odyssey's release on Tuesday the industrials will be the last tiered ship in the game.

However as most of you know rebalancing is never done and we'll be tweaking every ship in the game and then coming back and tweaking them again. I shouldn't announce what's coming next quite yet, but keep an eye on the Features and Ideas forum for new stickies once we clear out the Odyssey ones after release.


Who allowed you to post here? Back to the balancing pits! We need more Vespene Gas!
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