EVE General Discussion

This seems to have been the Dev attitude from the get-go with these changes. There was apparently little to no actual player input solicited before CCP hurriedly moved forward with what they thought was best for the playerbase, and when the feedback threads didn't go their way, they started enacting bug fixes and requested changes with the digital equivalent of a middle finger in the air.


You want to be able to save formations? Sure. Have two that we chose for you, since we didn't ask what any of you were using beforehand, and you can't actually save your own.

Want to use 8 probes? Sure. Now you can launch all 8 at one time instead of all 7.

Want to launch only one probe for some reason? Sure. Just load only one probe in the launcher, and you can launch just one.

Want to use less than our proscribed number of probes? Sure, just launch them all and recall/offline the ones you don't need.

Want to deliberately leave your probes behind for some reason? No. That's just silly. And think of the children.


Every single change to probing thus far stinks of being a rush job. CCP had stuff on the whiteboard, and made it go as quickly and with as little effort as possible. Perhaps if they had spent the time between Retribution and now actually working with the playerbase on the probing systems, instead of eyecandy windshield wipers and mobile phone minigames, we would have the widely featured, robust scanning system that could have been possible. We might have had a system that makes it easier for those that are new or casual, yet had the ability to unlock advanced functionality for others who want to be able to do things beyond the simple, without stepping on the toes of either group. Having a sandbox with multiple choices doesn't mean that everything has to be difficult. It means that if you're ready for the training wheels to come off, you shouldn't find that they're welded to the bicycle.

Only thing I see in this thread is people afraid of change crying because they can't adapt to such a small, minor thing.

I though people were going the other way around. I want elts say a DED 4/10, I use a DSP and can automaticly discard X% of the results because I know with the table that all those are not what I look for anyway. While I understand it is a nerf to your style of play, it still seems like it might be un-intended to be able to know that what you are looking for because the tables were fixed.

Randomizing of the strenght would have been a better solution to this imo but devs in every game seem to like using sledge hammer instead of scalpels sometime...

That is because you aren't receiving the actual complaint: we are concerned that CCP devs are fiddling with gameplay that they are not personally experienced in, then trying to evade answering our complaints about actual gameplay being broken.

The issues here are more than just the DSPs being broken, there's also the issue of probes being recalled when you duck through a wormhole. When working in w-space, some people go out of their way to find Unknown systems with decent "static" wormholes. Then they will periodically probe down all the signatures in their w-space and check the other side of wormholes they expect will lead to other Unknown space: CCP has ensured that we can build our little lookup tables by making sure that all signal strengths are 100% predictable, and all wormholes are given unambiguous numbers (such as K162 which unambiguously means, "someone found the other side of this wormhole"). So they leave their current constellation of probes out in space, duck through the wormhole to see where it goes, record that in their little notebook for sharing with the alliance when people log in later on, then come back to "home" and reconnect with their probes to continue probing from where they left off.

Related to the issue of "oh no I left my probes behind" is the issue of "oh no I left my distribution mission cargo behind." I'm sure many people would consider it to be excessive hand-holding if EVE was to put your distribution mission cargo into the cargo hold of your ship before you undock on a distribution mission. Why, then, is it considered okay to recall probes just because I've ducked through a wormhole?

Never been in one but my understand was that you cannot get out of a wormhole without scanning an exit. If it is the case, then maybe it is to prevent some people getting stuck in.

And even then, it's a half assed way to prevent it because you can BM it then come back with another ship with no launcher at all right?

Exactly. Ever since I saw these changes for the first time on SiSi, it pretty much screamed that they redesign was done by some person or persons that don't actually use this system on a regular basis. They broke things that they had no idea even existed, because they did not take the time to stop and ask people who do use the system daily what changes were warranted, and how best they might go about them.

Go outside.

Did you even read the post you just linked us too? It contains your quote and the content of the post is a player expertly pulling apart what you said and very correctly proving how wrong your initial post was.

Are you trying to imply that your initial post was wrong and the player post you linked to is correct? Or are you seriously not even attempting to read player feedback?

That's terribly rude. When attempting to correct someone who clearly thinks that they've explained themselves adequately, it helps to restate their initial statement in order to clarify your comprehension of their statement versus what they might actually have meant.

Here, let me have a go:

In the paragraph I quoted in that post, you indicated that you had become aware that you'd broken a particular playstyle (in this case, pre-filtering of cosmic signatures based on signal strength). You then offer a workaround which is to use a constellation of core scanner probes as a "poor man's DPS" and then you acknowledge that the removal of DSPs and the signal strength information on the system scanner reduces the amount of information available over current gameplay.

You then go on to state that you're happy with the workaround, and you're happy enough with the server side benefits ("efficiencies") that breaking the gameplay for high-level explorers isn't that much of a concern to you.

What I was hoping for is that you'd tell us that you planned to remove DSPs because they were providing too much information or that the removal of DSPs was intended to address some other aspect of the game, the loss of gameplay for some users is unintentional, and that you have some plan to fix it.

In the meantime we're left with the impression that you(s) removed DSPs to address some other aspect of the game (the devblog suggests that CCP SoniClover removed DSPs in order to prevent ships being scanned down "too quickly"), and that your attitude towards another part of the game being broken as a result is, "so what? Look over there! What could that be?!"

That one aspect of EVE is "too hard" for some people to grasp doesn't really qualify to me as reason enough to dumb the game down to suit those people. Take my pet gripe for example: I can't hold sovereignty in nullsec because I don't have a thousand friends. Would you consider allowing me to hire NPC mercenaries to hold my sovereignty for me? I can't FC well, so you'll need to make those mercenaries better than the thousand humans who will be trying to kick me out of nullsec. I'm sure that you understand the immense feeling of frustration that I have every time I fail to challenge sovereignty in nullsec on my own. Just throw the solo player a bone, would you?

Here are the actions that any player in EVE should take before any thought of CCP coming to help them should enter the fray:

1. Seek help on the forums or help channels: perhaps the problem is a basic misunderstanding or miscomprehension of one aspect of gameplay
2. Look for friends who will help you achieve your goal because they are better at some aspect of gameplay than you are.
3. Find other goals to achieve which you are capable of achieving with your current skills, game comprehension and collection of friends

I appreciate the emphasis on exploration in this expansion. I don't appreciate the attempts at making exploration "more accessible" which interfere with the way exploration is performed by skilled operators.

Imagine how Heston Blumenthal would feel if the only way to get flour to bake bread, was to buy it in pre-mixed bread recipes in single-loaf size packages? Imagine if CCP was fiddling with Gordon Ramsay's kitchen, and ensuring that the stove top could only ever heat stuff to 90°C because most people only use the stove for boiling eggs?

Heck, it's bad enough in Australia that we now have to live with hot water systems that can are legally restricted to delivering water at less than 50°C because too many idiots scald themselves with hot water. How do you wash dishes in warm water? To get the grease and baked-on lasagne off my baking trays I really need 60°C water to help soften the grease and ensure it emulsifies easier. So I have to resort to boiling water in a jug to wash the dishes. In EVE, I have no jug, but my hot water service is limited to 50°C.

In the words of Australia's most respected politician ever, Pauline Hanson, "I just don't like it."

LOL - So easy to get this guy ruffled up.