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Gnosis: Why is it so Terrible

Author
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#81 - 2013-05-28 12:58:06 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

It just sounds like you don't know how to pve effectively...

TE will be nerfed in about a week, 3rd TE after nerf will give so little it won't be worth it. Currently 3rd TE is questionable already and is only used on VERY high falloff ships like the mach.

Learn to separate your guns, sure it's easy just to group them up and blap things but it's far from optimal when using high alpha weapon systems like artillery and missiles.

At 10km or less you use drones, I thought that was a given.

Most level 3 missions that are worth doing like extravaganza and vengeance have spawns regularly over 50km away and in the case of angel extra 2nd and last room there are some even 70km+ away. 30km is also in deep falloff for autocannons meaning you do less than half of your "EFT DPS" at that range. Artillery will hit for almost full damage at 30km.

Sentries aren't only used against battleships, you stick a bouncers out they will shoot out to 60km+ and can easily pop small things on approach.

Faction booster costs 20m and you can happily downgrade the amp to a meta and it will drop your tank down to 278 and if you REALLY want to be cheap you can use a meta booster as well which takes tank down to 205. Seeing as this is a unique ship and is pretty resistant against ganking, I don't see why you shouldnt fit at least a faction booster on it.

I do know how to be effectiv, that's why I know your setup is nice in EFT but sucks when used in space ;).

The bonus you get from a 4th Gyro isn't enough to wast the slot it uses. 16 DPS more with EMP loaded? Rofl!
Better go with a Drone Damage or Signal Amp to lock faster. It will speed your PvE much more then creepy 16 DPS from 4 Gyros! Lock time will be an important factor if you ungroup your Artis and insta pop a lot of small ships in a very shot time!

TE isn't all about range, tracking speed is the second factor which will not be touched next patch!
And better tracking >>>> 4th gyro too if you use 720mm. Effective applied damage v EFT raw damage you know?
Even 650mm provide a faster ingame killspeed for level 3 then your setup. Better tracking, faster cycle time, nearly the same DPS (251 v 276 with your setup and standart EMP), same falloff, tiny bit less optimal.

You are right, there are some high bounty missions where you might want more range. But to be honest, most times you get this creepy little missions which are close range with mostly frigats.

Artis are nice for lazy guys (the one who normaly fly Drakes). Slow killspeed, NO MOVEMENT.
Autocanons are for real pilots who know each and every mission while sleeping ;).
And Amarr pilots know how to handle cap. No need to have EFT-cap for more then 1 minute *g*.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-05-28 13:07:44 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

It just sounds like you don't know how to pve effectively...

TE will be nerfed in about a week, 3rd TE after nerf will give so little it won't be worth it. Currently 3rd TE is questionable already and is only used on VERY high falloff ships like the mach.

Learn to separate your guns, sure it's easy just to group them up and blap things but it's far from optimal when using high alpha weapon systems like artillery and missiles.

At 10km or less you use drones, I thought that was a given.

Most level 3 missions that are worth doing like extravaganza and vengeance have spawns regularly over 50km away and in the case of angel extra 2nd and last room there are some even 70km+ away. 30km is also in deep falloff for autocannons meaning you do less than half of your "EFT DPS" at that range. Artillery will hit for almost full damage at 30km.

Sentries aren't only used against battleships, you stick a bouncers out they will shoot out to 60km+ and can easily pop small things on approach.

Faction booster costs 20m and you can happily downgrade the amp to a meta and it will drop your tank down to 278 and if you REALLY want to be cheap you can use a meta booster as well which takes tank down to 205. Seeing as this is a unique ship and is pretty resistant against ganking, I don't see why you shouldnt fit at least a faction booster on it.

I do know how to be effectiv, that's why I know your setup is nice in EFT but sucks when used in space ;).

The bonus you get from a 4th Gyro isn't enough to wast the slot it uses. 16 DPS more with EMP loaded? Rofl!
Better go with a Drone Damage or Signal Amp to lock faster. It will speed your PvE much more then creepy 16 DPS from 4 Gyros! Lock time will be an important factor if you ungroup your Artis and insta pop a lot of small ships in a very shot time!

TE isn't all about range, tracking speed is the second factor which will not be touched next patch!
And better tracking >>>> 4th gyro too if you use 720mm. Effective applied damage v EFT raw damage you know?
Even 650mm provide a faster ingame killspeed for level 3 then your setup. Better tracking, faster cycle time, nearly the same DPS (251 v 276 with your setup and standart EMP), same falloff, tiny bit less optimal.

You are right, there are some high bounty missions where you might want more range. But to be honest, most times you get this creepy little missions which are close range with mostly frigats.

Artis are nice for lazy guys (the one who normaly fly Drakes). Slow killspeed, NO MOVEMENT.
Autocanons are for real pilots who know each and every mission while sleeping ;).
And Amarr pilots know how to handle cap. No need to have EFT-cap for more then 1 minute *g*.


Tracking isnt an issue for artillery if you know how to fly your ship which you clearly don't since you assume you sit still with artillery.

The gyro isn't for DPS, it's for cycle time... 1.5 seconds is a substantial amount of time for artillery. 3rd TE however is completely redundant. I found this out by actually FLYING things that have these fits, not EFT warrioring heavy pulses.

Autocannons are for boats with falloff bonuses or noobs who dont understand falloff.

Also never said anything about cap =\, why even bring that up for an active shield fit?
Bea Love
Antiqua Vero
The Ancients.
#83 - 2013-05-28 13:21:24 UTC
The Gnosis is an awesome explo ship if you cant fly T3s. Also it hast got an frigate like align time. u can travel with mwd and a nice tank setup through gatecamps/back to gate quickly. I like the ship and its a really awesome ship for beginners wich cant fly cruisers/bc. Well please stop expecting that ccp would drop and overpowered ship to all players. I believe its one of the best free ship gifts ccp made :)

align time... yeah!
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#84 - 2013-05-28 14:25:29 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
The gyro isn't for DPS, it's for cycle time... 1.5 seconds is a substantial amount of time for artillery. 3rd TE however is completely redundant. I found this out by actually FLYING things that have these fits, not EFT warrioring heavy pulses.

Doesn't look like you flow them. And if you did it, you just used Drake-lazy-style. Warp in, throw drones out, shot. Movement only to reach the next warpgate.
And you call me EFT warrior? ROFL :).

Go on with your 4th gyro and slow cycle times. I do some real money inbetween ;).

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-05-28 14:56:15 UTC
real money in level 3s?

lol
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-05-28 16:14:19 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard, example with the common DCU and buffer rigs for 1 LSE and 2 Invulns EHP is 56k or 1 1600 and 2 EANM's EHP is 70k which is pretty average for a BC and that is across the board with no resist weakness which is a unique feature. Her DPS is not bad either with 5 bonused turrets and 5 bonused drones up to mediums with an extra set of lights for Frigs, not great but okay with a full choice of main weapons. Good cap, normal BC speed with Cruiser align time and Scan Res which is unique and welcome. Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield. It has plenty of good quality.

All together the Gnosis's omni ability is unique but her stats make her an average Battlecruiser and those two other Battlecruiser you listed are worse than the Gnosis in certain other area's, which is a common type of criticism, pick one area where a ship is better than use it as an example of why another is bad ignoring everything else. Gnosis isn't terrible, just average, it would not be likely to see much more use than any other if it wasn't so expensive but it would see average use.

That is the only problem with the Gnosis, she is short on numbers and high on cost, that is why I hope she is introduced into full Battlecruiser production, a paint job can be used to keep the current collectors items.




650 DPS -/+ on a shield fitted HAM BC with MWD/point and 57k EHP (one of mines) and a good speed agility is rather above the average BC pvp fitted with a dmg application range rather standard, so yes I think this ship is simply awesome.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Untanas Volmyr
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-05-28 18:39:34 UTC
I finally unlocked level 3 missions around the time I got my gnosis. I've done lots of research on tweaking its effectiveness. Level 3 missions are a breeze. And im still a long way off from perfecting it. Awesome ship from a nooby perspective.

Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.