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Answering CCP Seagull from Fanfest

First post
Author
Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#21 - 2013-05-27 19:03:07 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
[
I appreciate that you'd like this and you'd like CCP to know that. I still, however, think you're missing the point.

Capsuleers don't move into new areas of space.

Gigantic nullsec alliances swallow new areas of space whole and indigestible.... becasue it's there.

If a capsuleer wants a "home" there, then they have to join that alliance. Just making a "home" anywhere outside of high-sec (or maybe some wormholes) is like a hummingbird building a nest in path of an oncoming tornado and thinking pure thoughts so the tornado will stop getting closer.

I have no aversion to new content. It's a really nice fantasy. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with wishing that "capsuleers" or even tiny little upstart alliances could conquer a little area of undeveloped and worthwhile space to build a nice home in.... but I have bad news for you...

EVE online is not like living in teletubby land. Outside of high-sec it's a full-on, non-stop, chains, guns, knives and dirty tricks gang brawl. The "home" you want doesn't exist aside from someone bigger and better equipped to fight for it not wanting it too. I'm sorry to give you bad news but that the plain and simple truth as straight as I can give it to you and I doubt that anything CCP can do to expand content that doesn't make high-sec bigger will just create more of the same.

There is already a lot of this, especially in nullsec. But don't take my word for it. Do a tour in a nullsec alliance and see for yourself.


I don't know where you're getting all this "telletubby" and "hummingbird" nonsense from but you should really go back and reread my post. I specifically said these new areas would be like 0.0/WH and would be conquerable, but I guess not everyone reads that well.

You should proooobabbbbllyyyy also watch the Keynote from fanfest this year.... would really illuminate a lot of the things I'm talking about. Not trying to be a ****, but you don't seem to understand anything I'm saying and are operating on a number of false assumptions, probably knee-jerk reactions to previous topics.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-05-27 19:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Varius Xeral
If only there was a space-type where an absence of long term connections between points of space was hard-coded...

If you can't make it in WHs, might as well just ask for your own server (because it's just as likely you'll get it). There will never be a place where you can just farm in peace.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#23 - 2013-05-27 19:13:43 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
If only there was a space-type where an absence of long term connections between points of space was hard-coded...

If you can't make it in WHs, might as well just ask for your own server (because it's just as likely you'll get it). There will never be a place where you can just farm in peace.


Who said anything about peace?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-05-27 19:18:02 UTC
It's implied.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#25 - 2013-05-27 19:21:51 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
It's implied.


lolwut

What words implied that?

Conquerable space?

Destroyable Stargates?

Under threat?

Poised to strike?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-05-27 19:24:36 UTC
Yes, I want CCP to get off the chamber pot and finish what they started with INCARNA and WiS.

Sadly, we see CCP ignoring WiS like a cousin you never invite to family dinners but just keeps showing up anyway. Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Adunh Slavy
#27 - 2013-05-27 19:36:42 UTC
Right now, process granularity is a system. What if that granularity were smaller, the smaller processes comprising maybe 10 AU of space. These 'mega-grids' being tracked by another process. These process being created and destroyed dynamically as needed when players come out of warp, processing being merged when two grids are in close enough proximity. (A design challenge at a system level admittedly.)

Or perhaps go the opposite direction, system granularity becomes constellation based instead of system based.

The point is, make space seem freaking huge, all the empty spaces between systems, all the stuff that could be out there. Eve space as it is now is fish bowls connected with hoses. One absolutely giant fish bowl would be better.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Daimon Kaiera
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-05-27 19:57:30 UTC
Posting in a stealth nerf-highsec buff-null thread.

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#29 - 2013-05-27 20:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Xuixien wrote:


I don't know where you're getting all this "telletubby" and "hummingbird" nonsense from but you should really go back and reread my post. I specifically said these new areas would be like 0.0/WH and would be conquerable, but I guess not everyone reads that well.



I did read it and I understood it just fine. I just don't think you understand what it takes to conquer an area of space in this game, even one system.

if it can be conquered in EVE then you're quite simply NOT going to accomplish the goal of holding on to it unless either (a) nobody else wants it, which will mean it's useless space or (b) unless you have a couple of thousand buddies watching your back.

It's that simple.

Second thing is, a "home" in conquerable space is only a home for as long as nobody kicks you out. because no matter how big you are, in conquerable space there's never a "static" picture where everyone is out drinking beer and gettting space rich while the neighbours mind their own business.

Conquerable space is more like dealing with the mafia than dealing with the Jones. It's politics, it's having friends or being able to hire someone to fight for you and it's fighting to keep the other guys out . And that part never stops.

New area's of conquerable space aren't necessary in my view. Ther'es lots of that already. There is literally space enough to conquer right now. Parts of nullsec are very sparsely populated as it is.

I don't want to sound mean but if you feel you're up to the task then what's stopping you from moving in somewhere like... say... A2- in Querious and just taking that space to call your own?

Because as soon as new conquerable areas are opened up then you'll be faced with that very same problem... you'll have to fight for it.... and if you can't fight for it now then you wn't be able to fight for it when new areas are opened up either.

Quote:

You should proooobabbbbllyyyy also watch the Keynote from fanfest this year.... would really illuminate a lot of the things I'm talking about. Not trying to be a ****, but you don't seem to understand anything I'm saying and are operating on a number of false assumptions, probably knee-jerk reactions to previous topics.


I understand what you're saying. I just disagree with you.
Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#30 - 2013-05-27 20:21:02 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
I did read it and I understood it just fine. I just don't think you understand what it takes to conquer an area of space in this game, even one system.

if it can be conquered in EVE then you're quite simply NOT going to accomplish the goal of holding on to it unless either (a) nobody else wants it, which will mean it's useless space or (b) unless you have a couple of thousand buddies watching your back.


I really think you need to reread my OP because you obviously did not understand it.

Nowhere did I imply that solo pilots should be able to conquer entire systems.

I did say that I wanted alliances to be able to conquer these new sorts of systems.

Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Second thing is, a "home" in conquerable space is only a home for as long as nobody kicks you out.


Yeah... and? The threat of being kicked out gives something to fight for... drives the cycle of destruction and creation. Which is what EVE is based on. Why is this a bad thing?

Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
New area's of conquerable space aren't necessary in my view. Ther'es lots of that already. There is literally space enough to conquer right now. Parts of nullsec are very sparsely populated as it is.


Super entirely totally besides the point. It's not about this (whatever it is you're trying to say) - it's about giving players what they want and enjoy. Many players do not enjoy nullsec SOV... so they do not go there. Many players do not like WHs... so they do not go there. But many players do.

And many players would probably like new systems to be opened up.

EVE does not need to be "crowded". Systems do not need to be "full". This is a false premise.

CCP Seagull clearly said that new expansions of EVE will be based around the sci-fi theme of exploration and discovery, and threw out some foreshadowing about "building the right type of Stargates" -

..... and the crowd cheered.

Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Because as soon as new conquerable areas are opened up then you'll be faced with that very same problem... you'll have to fight for it.... and if you can't fight for it now then you wn't be able to fight for it when new areas are opened up either.


I'm not sure I really follow you - why is fighting for space a "problem"?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#31 - 2013-05-27 20:55:52 UTC
Xuixien wrote:


I think you pretty much put your finger on it when you said

This

Quote:

I did say that I wanted alliances to be able to conquer these new sorts of systems.


and then this:

[quote] The threat of being kicked out gives something to fight for... drives the cycle of destruction and creation. Which is what EVE is based on. Why is this a bad thing?


Which points to the crux of what I thought you meant in your first post. We can keep on with this back-and-forth but basically you would appear to be asking for new space that can be conquered by anyone provided you're not in an alliance.

This is exactly the "hummingbird thinking pure thoughts" thing that I objected to before. I'll pass.

I'm sorry you're not able to convince me but I guess sometimes you just need to agree to disagree.
Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#32 - 2013-05-27 21:03:52 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
you would appear to be asking for new space that can be conquered by anyone provided you're not in an alliance.


Not in an alliance? Like I said before, go back and reread my posts. I clearly stated that I want this to be an alliance level effort.

At this point I have to consider the possibility that you are just trolling me.

Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
I'm sorry you're not able to convince me but I guess sometimes you just need to agree to disagree.


I'm sorry you think I'm trying to convince you. I'm not. Again, another misunderstanding on your part.

I'm just pointing out for everyone's benefit how you didn't comprehend my posts, is all. Cool

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#33 - 2013-05-27 21:11:13 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


New area's of conquerable space aren't necessary in my view. Ther'es lots of that already. There is literally space enough to conquer right now. Parts of nullsec are very sparsely populated as it is.


So you think that wormholes weren't necessary? Apocrypha added new kind of conquerable space, and created new communities and gameplay, very similar to what the OP is asking for.

.

Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#34 - 2013-05-27 21:13:09 UTC
Roime wrote:
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


New area's of conquerable space aren't necessary in my view. Ther'es lots of that already. There is literally space enough to conquer right now. Parts of nullsec are very sparsely populated as it is.


So you think that wormholes weren't necessary? Apocrypha added new kind of conquerable space, and created new communities and gameplay, very similar to what the OP is asking for.


Wormholes have to go.

As long as there is a SINGLE empty nullsec system, and not all nullsec systems are filled to the brim, we have no need for any other systems.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#35 - 2013-05-27 21:15:18 UTC
Xuixien wrote:


I'm just pointing out for everyone's benefit how you didn't comprehend my posts, is all. Cool


Let's just be clear about one thing before we end this.

I didn't misunderstand you.

I disagreed with you.

... and now I'll have to leave the last word to you because I don't want to get sucked into reacting too much to this line of debate. It's really not that important.

Have fun conquering your new space and try to hold back the tears when some meany takes it away again. :)






Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#36 - 2013-05-27 21:20:15 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
I didn't misunderstand you.


Heh yeah you did. If you read my posts, I'm talking about opening up new, unique areas of space where alliances can move in, build (destroyable) Stargates, and conquer space and have to defend it from other people.

And then along you come talking about "hummingbirds" and "conquering space while not needing to be in an alliance". lol?

I'm sorry if your ego won't let you admit when you're wrong and you're trying to safe face with the whole "last word" line.

Heh.

Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Have fun conquering your new space and try to hold back the tears when some meany takes it away again. :)


Why would I cry about my favorite part of the game happening????

lol This guy.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-05-27 21:24:02 UTC
would like to see a ship that can act like a stargate, it deploys, points in the right direction and boom your in a new system.
Xuixien
Black Echelon
Beyond the Breach
#38 - 2013-05-27 21:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
EvEa Deva wrote:
would like to see a ship that can act like a stargate, it deploys, points in the right direction and boom your in a new system.


That's actually a really cool idea that I have not heard of before.

EDIT:

Maybe you use JUMP PROBES to find other star systems with suitable qualities, and then use this special ship to "launch" your fleet out there?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#39 - 2013-05-28 00:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
I would also like the imaginary future features they hype but have no plans of doing...every year.



(sorry I do need to give them credit for finally getting around to ambulation..or how we know it today...Captains Quarters with a welded shut door and a crappy FPS for playstation.)
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-05-28 05:52:45 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
If all of those things happen as you have described it, null sec will become even more pointless than it already is.

Edit: Just to clarify capsuleer built Star gates are a great idea, so long as they are destructible. I'd also like to point out that Seagul didn't say half of those things. Don't put words in CCPs mouth thanking them for saying they'll do it, because when they don't do it, you'll only be on the forum bitching about it.


I can't wait till we find some alliance with a single pipe into their new "Explorable space" and they get all moved in and snug... then we blow up the pipe.

If we're talking destroyable assets can we start with stations? I can name a few regions that need a trimming.
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