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Odyssey Typhoon vs Raven

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Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-25 01:45:41 UTC
Typhoon
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+400) / 1087s / 4.97 (+.3)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11(-.006) / 100600000(-3000000) / 15.8s(-1.16s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 125(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 330(+10)

Raven
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)

I currently fly minmatar and would be closer to getting a typhoon after training missiles up. 4 months for perfect missile skills. Is the Raven going to be extraordinarily better for any reason?

Something clever
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#2 - 2013-05-25 03:35:17 UTC
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2013-05-25 03:46:11 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom


Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Atlas Arnst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-05-25 05:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Atlas Arnst
The Raven isn't that much better than the Typhoon, the 25% explosive velocity bonus is better than the 50% missile velocity bonus in my opinion, just fly whatever you think you'll enjoy flying, honestly with the massive cruise missile buffs they're both viable.
hellcane
Never Back Down
#5 - 2013-05-25 12:34:04 UTC
The fleet issue versions are where things get interesting in this discussion.
stoicfaux
#6 - 2013-05-25 13:00:08 UTC
Both hulls can mount the same effective missile DPS. The only real differences are:
a) the Typhoon has a "free" missile explosion velocity rig. This frees up a rig slot or it gives you a small applied missile dps advantage over the Raven.
b) the Raven has faster missiles. 7km/s versus 9km/s.
c) the Typhoon has twice the drone bandwidth of the Raven
d) in the context of mission running, against Angels you should be able to fly with a three slot shield tank, which lets you put 4 BCUs and 2 DDAs in the lows. The DDAs increase sentry damage.
e) the Raven shield tanks, whereas the Typhoon armor tanks.

tl;dr They're essentially the same in regards to applied missile DPS. The differences are in tank, drones, speed, sig size and targeting range.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2013-05-25 13:05:13 UTC
Twice the amount of drones.
More speed and better agility.
Signature close to that of BC's.
Far superior missile damage application.

The Raven's addition range only impacts PvE as CM will still be largely useless as sniper weapons, applied damage on the other hand benefits both PvE and PvP.

It is a clear cut case of 'no-contest' if you ask me. At least until CCP come out balls swinging with a solution to make missiles viable in extreme range engagements.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#8 - 2013-05-25 15:13:46 UTC
Hi,
I am a minmatar myself and I love typhoon and new typhoon fleet issue will be very good.I had typhoons and ravens so the thing is that typhoon armor tanking is great and with low skills can do level 4 missions .But if you have good skills and you know how to fly a raven navy you ll say WOW.It's better since it uses lows for pure damage and maybe one damage control while typhoon uses lows for armor tanking so you lose to damage a lot.I think you should go for typhoon fleet issue gather money and then buy a raven navy issue and learn how to fly it.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#9 - 2013-05-25 17:14:43 UTC
I don't see any problem with shield tanking the phoon, I'd probably prefer the shield tank at least for PvE. I think the real differences will be in the navy versions of the ships.
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#10 - 2013-05-25 17:41:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom


Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?



Sure 10 vs 10 .....

I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship.
Atlas Arnst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-05-25 17:48:09 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom


Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?



Sure 10 vs 10 .....

I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship.
4 Mids? What are you smoking the Odyssey Typhoon has 5 mids, for PVP you're going to have to armor tank it.
Predator989
Kurupt.
Sedition.
#12 - 2013-05-25 17:49:50 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom


Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?



Sure 10 vs 10 .....

I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship.



Isn't at 5 mids now once the changes go live?

So far I like how both of them look, but to this day I still refuse to fly Caldari =P
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-25 17:59:16 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom



Actually, no. As it stands right now and Navy Phoon slots layout/bonus+missile changes, this ship will simply be OP over everything else at simple condition: get all the related skills to the top but if you have it already, N Phoons will eat CNRs all day long in all aspects.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#14 - 2013-05-25 21:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
Short answer .....YES

The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom



Actually, no. As it stands right now and Navy Phoon slots layout/bonus+missile changes, this ship will simply be OP over everything else at simple condition: get all the related skills to the top but if you have it already, N Phoons will eat CNRs all day long in all aspects.


I stand corrected on the 5 mids, thank you for pointing that out. PVP wise..... I'll just point to SCL 3, and let you watch how ravens and CNRs eat everything. Phoons wouldnt have a chance.

Nano ravens with damps and tp's. Just as fast as phoon.... Burn Eden anyone?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-05-26 03:08:19 UTC
Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey.Lol

Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...Roll
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#16 - 2013-05-26 03:30:26 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey.Lol

Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...Roll


Exceptions: Scorpion for the EW or Rattlesnake which is more of a drone boat.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#17 - 2013-05-26 05:07:43 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey.Lol

Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...Roll

Tell that to the CNR fleets destroying people Roll
Lemok Sonji
Lethal Devotion
#18 - 2013-05-26 08:48:42 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:

I currently fly minmatar and would be closer to getting a typhoon after training missiles up. 4 months for perfect missile skills. Is the Raven going to be extraordinarily better for any reason?


Basically, you can make the typhoon as good as a raven, if a bit better.
You get a free flare rig, you can make it shield tank fine with its slots layout, it can move faster, less signature radios, you can lay it out to out-tank the raven.

It also depends on where you plan to go.
If you skill for caldari and eventually go to a CNR, the typhoon route doesn't mean that much.
If you plan to stick to T1 hulls, get a typhoon.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#19 - 2013-05-27 08:03:55 UTC
For PvE Depends on how good your skills and equipment are.

The claimed "Shield" Phoon has 5 meds. You need to use 2 of these meds with TP's to have a chance at decent damage application. That leaves you with 3 slots for tanking/propmods/capboosters. Some people say they can pull this off. I know I can't.

When you do that all yoır lows are to amplify your damage. You can boost missile damage and drone damage and you get a dps monster.

Other way to go is armor tanking, which is less efficient than shield tanking for PvE purposes.5 slots for armor tank leaves you with 2 slots for bcu and 5 meds for tps, omnis, cap boosters, propmods or whatever. Lack of BCU's hurt dps, though you'll be making up for it with drones. Again if you are ballsy and go with lower amount of armor mods for tank you get higher dps, but again I know I can't. I also see a new niche for phoon in PvE: Armor Incursion Fleets.

For PvP it depends on your fleet composition. If you are in a shield fleet, then Raven gets better toys to play with (damps, td's) while phoon gets more raw damage via drones. Honestly I would prefer a raven in a shield fleet as that missile velocity bonus will mean less delay in applied damage, which is critical for pvp. Not to forget the extra meds. Drone damage is not that reliable in PvP anyway.

For Armor fleets it will be phoon. No contest there.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#20 - 2013-05-27 09:28:48 UTC
Deerin wrote:
For PvE Depends on how good your skills and equipment are.

The claimed "Shield" Phoon has 5 meds. You need to use 2 of these meds with TP's to have a chance at decent damage application. That leaves you with 3 slots for tanking/propmods/capboosters. Some people say they can pull this off. I know I can't.

When you do that all yoır lows are to amplify your damage. You can boost missile damage and drone damage and you get a dps monster.

Other way to go is armor tanking, which is less efficient than shield tanking for PvE purposes.5 slots for armor tank leaves you with 2 slots for bcu and 5 meds for tps, omnis, cap boosters, propmods or whatever. Lack of BCU's hurt dps, though you'll be making up for it with drones. Again if you are ballsy and go with lower amount of armor mods for tank you get higher dps, but again I know I can't. I also see a new niche for phoon in PvE: Armor Incursion Fleets.

For PvP it depends on your fleet composition. If you are in a shield fleet, then Raven gets better toys to play with (damps, td's) while phoon gets more raw damage via drones. Honestly I would prefer a raven in a shield fleet as that missile velocity bonus will mean less delay in applied damage, which is critical for pvp. Not to forget the extra meds. Drone damage is not that reliable in PvP anyway.

For Armor fleets it will be phoon. No contest there.


Good analysis.

It might be worth saying, that the Typhoon is probably the better ship for people annoyed by the awful cycle time of TPs. Going without TPs and compensating with full rigor would be an option for the Typhoon, that the Raven won't have.
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