Science & Industry

no, not in particular. it was just that, depending on how we're defining it, cloaky campers etc make 0 difference to supply.

I am completely baffled by the ongoing belief that this would be even mildly difficult to overcome for a bot author.

I would be shocked if the necessary code adjustments haven't already been made in preparation for the patch.

If you bothered to do your research, you'd find that CCP Fozzie has posted some important numbers.

For example:
HS currently mines about 94% of Ice mined in EVE.
and
Krystallos is getting buffed to produce more LOz.
and, damningly,
HS uses less than 15% of the Isotopes used in EVE.


Now, while that's not a direct mention of how much LOz is used, it does give an indication of how small a scale HS Ice product usage is.

people will start mining ice even before the price explodes, mainly because it'll be more isk/hour than ore.

Exactly,
There are bot programs that not only mine, but warp back and fourth from station, empty cargo, warp to random bookmarks, target asteriods based on type, And know where the ore hold is full to go dump and start over.

Anyone who thinks a single click on the system scanner to get a warp to point will be hard for a bot programmer has no idea what bots can do.

A bot program is a lot more complex than a series of macros that any player can set up with a decent keyboard or gamepad.

Some of you may recall how in SWG there was a built in feature for setting up marcos. That was not botting, although it could be used to afk certain activities. A BOT program is a third party tool that can play the game for you while you are asleep or doing something else. Some have fairly complex A.I. that can be altered to play many different games. They can be programed to watch for certain ques on screen that will trigger programed reactions. Rats showing up can trigger defensive modules or drones, cargo being full can trigger warp to station and unload. asteroid popping can trigger a new target lock and cycle the mining mods. A well programed bot can be near impossible to differentiate between a live player. It is the poorly built bots and marcoers that usually get caught as bots.

This is why CCP's bot hunting includes programs that watch the code for interference caused by third party program interaction with the code.

even more so when you can get a max yield retriever pilot for exactly 1 plex after the expansion when dual training becomes a thing.
1 plex for a character that can earn 50m/hour and help your alliance. it's a steal!

you say that like the number of people that mine ice now in non-high sec is relevant. due to the fact that ice mining is changing, what is happening currently is largely irrelevant.

nobody will mine anything in low sec. it's low sec, and it's bad.

also the tank of barges is irrelevant, even in null sec. just drop one ratting ship in the belt with you and nuke the rats before they do any damage to anything.

probably but would it be worth it?
could you raise the prices of ice enough with this kind of method to make it more lucrative than just mining the **** out of everything and dumping it to the market? i mean. look at notec. from what i gather that was "hoard it all and get rich" yet the only people that got rich were the people not in notec as they sold their stockpiles on the following price spike... (or i could be talking ****, i didn't really understand notec)

Explain to me please what makes a Skiff better than a Mack in null sec? The Tank? What good does a tank do on a ship that can not fight back? If you are in Null sec in a situation where you need your tank it better just be for rats. If a PVPer or small gang gets you in a situation where they are eating through your tank you have already lost. If you are tackled and being attacked what is going to happen? You are not going anywhere, you are going to get popped. Will a larger tank prevent this? No, you are tackled and not going anywhere. An 80K ehp tank will only mean the attackers need a few extra seconds to kill you, that tank will not save you.

In high sec tank saves you, when they attack they only have 20-30 seconds to kill you before CONCORD shows up. Extra tank means they need to bring more DPS to kill you in that 20 second window. In null sec there is no window, no limit to the time they have to kill you. All they have to do is tackle you and you are dead, tank only affects how many seconds it takes to kill you, it does not allow you to get away.

What happens if you are lucky enough to have a friendly gang in the area that can come to your aid? Well chances are from the time you call for help until the cavalry arrives will be a couple minutes. Even a solo BC can kill a skiff in a couple minutes. Best case scenario is the friendly fleet catches the attackers and kills them, but chances are you are still dead before they get there.

So what does help you survive in null sec in a mining ship. The answer is speed. Being able to align and warp before they land on grid will do you much more good than having a large tank, normally once you start taking damage the fight is already decided. A skiff does have better speed and agility than the other mining ships, except the Venture. A venture can mine some what safely anywhere. It is very fast to warp out and has a +2 warp strength, So if they do get a lock on you they need 3 points to lock you down. A skiff, while much better than a Mack in this regard is still not near fast enough to escape. Maybe restoring the skiffs +2 warp strength would make it the ultimate null sec miner.

With the current system if you are mining in a grav site your attackers need to scan you down first. if you are watching D-scan this will give you those extra few seconds you need to GTFO. With the coming changes they will be able to warp to your grav site right away after jumping into the system. This means every time you see a neutral you will have to safe up. I guess many null sec miners do this already, but for those of us not hiding deep inside blue territory neutrals are far more common. If I have to spend half my time hidding in a POS shield rather than mining the higher isk/hr really doesn't mean much. if the population of null sec rises neutrals will become even more common.

I look forward to seeing the result of nullsec alliances putting out CTA for ice harvesting operations. Will they end up harvesting ice or will people stop logging in and responding to Jabber pings?