These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Out of Pod Experience

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Woolwich Barracks attack, London

First post
Author
jason hill
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-05-24 21:00:30 UTC
I had a thought about a suitable punishment for these scum ...we could always harvest their internal organs ... lets face it these idiots are obviously looking for an early release and martyrdom for their otherwise worthless tooth fairy existence they have obviously shown society that their ultimate goal is to meet the tooth fairy.. so in return for our society feeding /clothing/educating them we just harvest their organs for those in our society that really need them ....simples Big smile...its obvious to me that they have no use for them
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#62 - 2013-05-24 23:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I'm not sure how that specific military installation was run, or military installations are run in general in the UK...

It seems Woolwich is more comparable to say Ft Myer in Arlington, VA, as opposed to a fort like Benning, but I couldn't imagine a stabbing murder could take place a 5 second jog from soldiers' dormitories at Ft Myer with the murderers pacing back and forth in front of it for a full 13 minutes with bloody knives in hand while screaming, and that nobody at Myer would be the least bit aware.

Or that an MP wouldn't have noticed two suspicious looking individuals loitering around while they were waiting for someone to murder in the first place, and completely not noticed the screaming/bloody knife and machete waving.

Barracks are more of a centralised administration and command structure than full scale military installations in the UK, soldiers live off base for the most part in military quarters or rented accommodation, during my fathers time in the army, he served 25 years and for 15 of those the family moved with him, we only lived on base for a year, that was in a small barracks allocated to the TA (National Guard) he was posted to as an advisor/CO.

RMP have no authority outside of the barracks, our civilian police make any arrests outside of them and then turn military personnel over to the RMP as needed, although they sometimes work in tandem. It's very rare to see the RMP unless you're knee deep in manure, and guard duty is pulled by regular soldiers who while armed will generally not fire upon civilians unless they or the military base they are guarding are directly attacked.

It's a different culture here, firearms are rarely seen in public outside of military parades, guard duty (Buckingham Palace for example) or airports, while stationed in the UK most soldiers aren't armed while working unless their duties require them to be, even our armed forces in Europe are rarely armed unless they need to be. It's also very rare to see an off-duty soldier in uniform outside of military property unless they're attending some ceremonial function, they stand out and make for easy targets, a hard lesson we learnt during the Irish troubles.

The same school of thought carries over to our civilian police, 90% of them aren't armed, outside of pepper spray and telescopic batons, for everyday duties.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Hrothgar Nilsson
#63 - 2013-05-25 04:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
That's why I made the comparison to Ft. Myer, which is essentially the same.

I don't quite believe what you've wrote. Your own law, PACE Act 1984:

24A Arrest without warrant: other persons

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
  • (a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
  • (b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
  • (a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
  • (b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—
  • (a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
  • (b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead [none were present, immediate danger to the public posed by two screaming murderers wielding bloody knives/machetes].

(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question—
  • (a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
  • (b) suffering physical injury;
  • (c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
  • (d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2013-05-25 07:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I'm kind of wondering why nobody from the base responded. I don't think they could have reacted in time to prevent the murder, but they could have subdued the murderers. Rigby was murdered no more than 30 feet from the barracks building, and the two murderers hung around the spot for 13 minutes with knives in hand.


They didn't know it was happening.

The murderers hit him with a car first and people thought they were trying to help him. When they realised what was happening they called the police. The lads at the barracks had no idea something was going on until shots were fired and nobody knew who the victim was for a while. This all took place out of sight of the base.
Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#65 - 2013-05-25 11:42:06 UTC
Change has to happen from within Islam in order for these things to stop. Everything else is just empty platitudes. Yes, we know it's the minority. Yes, we know you condemn it. But what are you doing from within to stop it? Nothing real or tangible has been done to move it into the 21st century, and it just seems like the public accepts these empty apologies out of fear of being called racist. How many times can you say, "We denounce this" before you actually do something about it? All the integration is being done by the western world, cow-towing and tiptoeing around everything so as to not offend.

The Vatican has been brought to heel, so why not Islam? Call a spade a spade.
Astenion
Zeeman Industries
The Ancients.
#66 - 2013-05-25 11:47:57 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I'm not sure how that specific military installation was run, or military installations are run in general in the UK...

It seems Woolwich is more comparable to say Ft Myer in Arlington, VA, as opposed to a fort like Benning, but I couldn't imagine a stabbing murder could take place a 5 second jog from soldiers' dormitories at Ft Myer with the murderers pacing back and forth in front of it for a full 13 minutes with bloody knives in hand while screaming, and that nobody at Myer would be the least bit aware.

Or that an MP wouldn't have noticed two suspicious looking individuals loitering around while they were waiting for someone to murder in the first place, and completely not noticed the screaming/bloody knife and machete waving.


What happens outside the gate is beyond the control of the MPs. If they don't hear it or see it, they're not going to know about it. They're not roaming the streets.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#67 - 2013-05-25 12:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
@ Hrothgar Nilsson, if you're a civilian and you try and enforce the PACE act, you have a 50/50 chance of being the one that gets prosecuted by the courts, normally for using excessive force. Our laws are so convoluted that it isn't unknown for householders to be jailed for "assaulting" burglars.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#68 - 2013-05-25 18:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
jason hill wrote:
I had a thought about a suitable punishment for these scum ...we could always harvest their internal organs ... lets face it these idiots are obviously looking for an early release and martyrdom for their otherwise worthless tooth fairy existence they have obviously shown society that their ultimate goal is to meet the tooth fairy.. so in return for our society feeding /clothing/educating them we just harvest their organs for those in our society that really need them ....simples Big smile...its obvious to me that they have no use for them


{EDIT: To be clear the followin response is because you used the word scum. /End Edit)

I completely believe that these men should be executed. They totally believe that they should be punished for their crimes as well. Heck, against the typical Middle Eastern Muslim mentality, the filmed perpertraitor even apologised for the fact that women had to witness their actions. If one listens to what the perpetratitor said, he said that this is how it is where they come from. I am not going to sit here and lecture on how the West has failed the developing nations of world, but I will say that, more than likely if you or I were raised in the area of the world were men like this were, we would be just the same have similar mentalities. To boot, I find it ironic, that these guys speak more languages then I and probably many in the EvE player base. Again, I do not condone the actions, but understanding motives is where we find the keys to potentially solving problems.


Astenion wrote:
Change has to happen from within Islam in order for these things to stop. Everything else is just empty platitudes. Yes, we know it's the minority. Yes, we know you condemn it. But what are you doing from within to stop it? Nothing real or tangible has been done to move it into the 21st century, and it just seems like the public accepts these empty apologies out of fear of being called racist. How many times can you say, "We denounce this" before you actually do something about it? All the integration is being done by the western world, cow-towing and tiptoeing around everything so as to not offend.

The Vatican has been brought to heel, so why not Islam? Call a spade a spade.


The whole of Religion really. I believe most of the cow towing is because the magority of the Muslims are not even close to the extremist viewpoint. Those that fall into the extremist catagory are a very small minority. It just so happens that small, well, organized groups, can reak havoc. Weak links break chains.
Simeon Tor
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
#69 - 2013-05-25 19:50:06 UTC
jason hill wrote:
I had a thought about a suitable punishment for these scum ...we could always harvest their internal organs ... lets face it these idiots are obviously looking for an early release and martyrdom for their otherwise worthless tooth fairy existence they have obviously shown society that their ultimate goal is to meet the tooth fairy.. so in return for our society feeding /clothing/educating them we just harvest their organs for those in our society that really need them ....simples Big smile...its obvious to me that they have no use for them


Sounds very Larry Niven if you ask me.

[center]New Eden Research[/center] [center]Providing access to fast and affordable labs since 2006![/center]

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#70 - 2013-05-25 21:42:39 UTC
Political and religious discussion is not permitted on these forums. If you would like to discuss those topics, might I recommend a different forum. Thank you.

Thread closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department