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Upcoming Changes To Industrials?

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Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#61 - 2013-05-23 11:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P


I think an obvious solution for the extra gallente industrials is a mining boat with half the yield of a covetor / hulk but 2x cargo capacity [for ore / minerals only] of an Iteron 5.

A noteworthy addition as a niche vessel for those who want to mine solo / without dedicated haulers or Orca. Could make it require both Covetor and Itty 5 skills to fly.

Seems to be just right for a Gallente ship.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#62 - 2013-05-23 20:39:03 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P



caldari only got 2 badgers... one ship is missing?
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-05-23 21:57:14 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P



caldari only got 2 badgers... one ship is missing?


Amarr and Caldari only have 2 industrials right now which is why they're probably not being tiericided this patch. They're going to need to add another ship for each of those races which makes it more involved than just playing with some numbers in a database.

Unless they released the ships as copies of a current ship and just replaced the model somewhere down the line, but whatever.
BOS Hydra
Uneven Structure
#64 - 2013-05-25 02:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: BOS Hydra
Danni stark wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Actually the mining barge changes were very successful. It is a matter of opinion though.


not really, the mackinaw has the worst 0 attributes with regard to (ehp/cargo/yield) and the hulk has the worst of 2. that's not balanced in the slightest.
the fact that the skiff and procurer mine less than 10% of any given non mercoxit ore is also an indicator that the ship isn't used (arguably, because it's poorly balanced)

it's not an opinion, the numbers speak for themselves. i don't want to derail the thread, but you're wrong.


EDIT: nevermind, i was tired when I posted and completely misunderstood your post.

As far as Gallente indy is concerned, I'm not sure that having a steady grainularty is a good idea. Something will end up filling the roles better than 2 jack-of-all-trades versions and they probly wouldn't be flown. They should get the other 2 to have some sort of specialized and unique role from the other races, maybe one of them having an extended ore hold would be interesting for newer players (perhaps the mark 2 or 3).
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#65 - 2013-05-25 10:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
The mining barge rebalance was highly successful … at replacing the Hulk as the "go to" ship for ore mining with the Mackinaw, and replacing the Mackinaw as the "go to" ship for ice harvesting with the Mackinaw.

I would love to see one of the T1 industrials turned into a two-cruiser + fittings hauler, like a mini Orca. No other bonuses required, just a ship maintenance bay of about 250k with a fleet hangar of about 3900 (equivalent to a giant secure container). Perhaps the T2 version could have the ability to fit a covert cloak, and provide a fitting service.

Another really nice thing would be an industrial specialised for hauling fuel and/or ammo: big specialised bays, a fleet hangar, lots of EHP and some warp core stability. Thus I could resupply sieged dreads through the fleet hangar, jumping back and forth thanks to the titan bridge. This could be the new role for a DST, perhaps?

Freighter pilots need lighters. These would be industrials with large cargo bays, perhaps capable of fitting a MWD. It wouldn't need rig slots, and ideally it would be perfectly functional without any modules fitted, and collapse to a very small size when repackaged. Thus the freighter pilot can carry their lighter with them, unpack it at a hub station, then ferry large containers back and forth using the lighter. Perhaps the lighter could have a specialised bay which only allows them to carry a freight container (150,000m3), or only allows containers in general (like the ISO container lighter in the Wikipedia article I linked). It would be nice if the lighter was introduced with a new container of about 10,000m3 volume/capacity.

Also the current blockade runners do not need the "unscannable cargo" feature.

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-05-25 18:16:13 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Danni stark wrote:

the fact that the skiff and procurer mine less than 10% of any given non mercoxit ore is also an indicator that the ship isn't used (arguably, because it's poorly balanced)

it can be seen another way. For example: people prefer some more EHP to other factors. Then you have more people use ship with the biggest EHP than other ships.

the actual failure of the mining ship rebalance is that it practically killed a valuable game mechanic.




It's still valuable, it's up to you to make it valuable and if you can't then leave it to those being able to. By valuable activity you're talking about ganking, well ganking in eve is by far the easiest and no brainer activity, a real dumb down of gaming resumed to all gank no tank hit F1 on ships unable to fire back.

Ganking should and is a valuable activity but should require planning and organization, which all of those doing this will tell you they make billions of profits.
Plus, on top of a no brainer dumbing down of Eve gaming the old mining barges gank also helped by far for more players to leave the game than you ever helped on something about bots which was another no brainer excuse.

If you really play Eve only to gank noobs with no possibility to ever fight back decently, if you ever play Eve only to easily gank mining barges fingers in the nose, I'd say you shouldn't play Eve and you're as bad for the game in the long term as bots are.

Ganking must be possible and a profitability tool or a disruption tool, but not a no brainer 5 year old activity able to disrupt and harm the game for real where many players have no other solution than leave rather than be victims of such dumb playing style.
Like it or not, believe it or not, no brainer ganking is by far worst for the community than bots or planned ganking.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#67 - 2013-06-07 18:07:51 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
you are aware your mining barge rebalance was horrible and failed at the "balance" part (look at your dev blog where you showed how much ore was mined by skiffs and procurers) so this already sounds bad.


Procurers are perfect, you just fail to see an use for them, however others have found out.

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CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
#68 - 2013-06-07 18:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CompleteFailure
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P


+1

Seriously though, I'd think the obvious answer would be to keep Iterons I-III Gallente, and make Iterons IV-V ORE ships so people don't have to train another racial Industrial skill. They would have to train the ORE Industrial instead, but that would flow right into a Noctis skill plan no problem. For people who can currently fly an Iteron IV or V, they would receive the corresponding ORE Industrial skill level to compensate, so no harm, no foul (not to mention all the people who never trained for a Noctis that would suddenly have that ability, win-win if you ask me). I don't think you could still call them Iterons or keep the ship models, but that seems like it would make the most sense. You would then also have to create a third Amarr and Caldari industrial, of course.
Jessy Berbers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-06-07 20:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessy Berbers
Do Not Touch my itty MK5
Least one of the viable ships in the gallente lineup at all.
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#70 - 2013-06-07 21:34:59 UTC
Well I for one would like something that aligns faster than a Orca, does not have the high cost of a orca and holds around 150k m3. I do PI in null and the larger capacity would be nice for emptying the customs office and ferrying the products around .
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#71 - 2013-06-07 21:52:50 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
Well I for one would like something that aligns faster than a Orca, does not have the high cost of a orca and holds around 150k m3. I do PI in null and the larger capacity would be nice for emptying the customs office and ferrying the products around .

Or, in other words: "I want something faster and cheaper than an Orca that has more carrying capacity."

Wait what?

Also, Orca aligns in 10s if you pulse a 100mn MWD. Is that not fast enough for you?