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ASBs vs. Shield extenders?

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Ivana Boom-Boom
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-05-22 16:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivana Boom-Boom
I was reading an old topic about Merlin fitting and people were comparing a MSE vs. an ASB... The argument in favor of the ASB was that there would be more (i think it ended up being 600 more) EHP injected over 25 seconds...

My question is...What's your survivability? If you're taking more damage, will you even get the chance to inject all that extra shield? Or is the immediate buffer (though smaller) better than the eventual buffer?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-22 16:35:13 UTC
ASB is for small gang work where you dont take that much damage so you can rep up. MSE is for buffer, can work in small gang but is also preferred in larger engagements where you may get reps from logi as well.

Also MSE increases your sig radius and therefore your damage taken so ASBs have become a preferred standard in small scale engagements.

Art of Explosions
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-05-22 16:41:10 UTC
I'd argue it is superior to MSE in every situation -- even large scale combat.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Ivana Boom-Boom
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-05-22 16:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivana Boom-Boom
Say on a frigate... How much does the +5 to +8 (depending on meta level of the MSE) signature radius matter? Granted we're also rigging with some shield rigs...Though that's less than +3 sig. radius per rig in this case (I'm training up to lower it more - currently at 7% penalty).

....edit: i guess my answer there is it depends on how many other small ships are on the other end.?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-05-22 17:00:24 UTC
if you MWD fit your frig it's going to matter a lot. However it's still more incoming damage so the ehp you gain will be slightly offset by the increased damage you take.

Art of Explosions
Ivana Boom-Boom
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-05-22 17:25:33 UTC
good point.... and i dual prop fit this merlin. just because i was afraid of the increased sig radius from MWD. hoping MWD to get to range. AB to stay in optimal and tight and low sig radius...
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#7 - 2013-05-23 07:01:53 UTC
Ivana Boom-Boom wrote:
good point.... and i dual prop fit this merlin. just because i was afraid of the increased sig radius from MWD. hoping MWD to get to range. AB to stay in optimal and tight and low sig radius...



Damping condors and hookbills and td slashers and firetails will wreck that merlin without some way to control opposing ship speed(i.e. web)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-05-23 09:44:25 UTC
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
I'd argue it is superior to MSE in every situation -- even large scale combat.



2 Merlins fly into a smartbombing battleship. One has an MSE the other has an ASB...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#9 - 2013-05-23 09:50:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
I'd argue it is superior to MSE in every situation -- even large scale combat.



2 Merlins fly into a smartbombing battleship. One has an MSE the other has an ASB...



...and they both die!


But yes, it is a good example. I have been alpha'd faster than my MASB could rep it on many occassions. MSE is still better if you're anticipating getting alpha'd a lot.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Angelina Joliee
Malakim Zealots
Angel Cartel
#10 - 2013-05-23 09:56:11 UTC
I see ASB's not as shield boosters but more like buffer. Thats because you usually dont have the time to reload a second set of charges. Mathematically ASBs give more buffer than extenders but they have disadvantages too:
- Can be alpha'd.
- ASBs are harder to fit than extenders.
- ASB's need to be activated - something you may not have time to do in a fight - especially if dual-boxing.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#11 - 2013-05-23 14:57:04 UTC
Angelina Joliee wrote:
I see ASB's not as shield boosters but more like buffer. Thats because you usually dont have the time to reload a second set of charges. Mathematically ASBs give more buffer than extenders but they have disadvantages too:
- Can be alpha'd.
- ASBs are harder to fit than extenders.
- ASB's need to be activated - something you may not have time to do in a fight - especially if dual-boxing.


I prefer to fit two of them. Usually one can reload while the other is periodically activated, unless you've been alpha'd like something ungodly.

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-24 08:53:47 UTC
I've actually had a bit of success in using both - MSE for buffer against alpha and ASB to sustain combat. Saved my bacon against a laser ship once, too.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#13 - 2013-05-24 09:05:29 UTC
Ivana Boom-Boom wrote:
I was reading an old topic about Merlin fitting and people were comparing a MSE vs. an ASB... The argument in favor of the ASB was that there would be more (i think it ended up being 600 more) EHP injected over 25 seconds...



If you look at your question from helicopter level then you're asking the question, "should I active fit or buffer fit"?

I think you'll see that it depends on context.

Active fit is very useful when you have no logi available

Buffer fit (provided to can hold on until reps land) is handier when you have logi's watching your back.

In a frigate/interceptor I would *tend* to opt for active fit even in fleets because in fleets the logi are going to be busy and you may be well out of their range because you won't be anchored up. Furthermore you may be asked to burn ahead and tackle fleeing foes etc. which means you need to hang on until your logies (who warp slower than you do) land.

so yeah. MY opinion... an ASB is probably more useful than a shield extender on a frigate in most situations.

That said, speed/sig tanking can pay dividends too. Either way you'll always be able to think of a scenario where the solution should have been what you decided not to do.






Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#14 - 2013-05-24 23:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Davion Falcon
ASB's are not 'active' fit. It's just slightly more stored up EHP with a lack of buffer.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#15 - 2013-05-25 07:58:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
2 Merlins fly into a smartbombing battleship. One has an MSE the other has an ASB...


They both orbit it at 7500m and become untouchable?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0