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Interceptors need some love

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Number 17
COLD-Wing
#1 - 2013-05-22 18:23:18 UTC
I know that with recent changes interceptors have been left behind and are pretty much repleaceable by any other frig.

One of the interceptor bonuses is the warp speed, each race has a 9au/s and a 13.5au/s warp speed interceptor, but in reality this translates to pretty much nothing. The ideal of warping 2 or 3 seconds behind a bigger ship and landing before it is more or less an illusion except on really long warps where you get a 1 or 2 second advantage.

I noticed that on a mid range 50 au warp you are more or less 30 seconds in warp, with a 13.5au/s ceptor. In reality you are only travelling at full warp speed for about 3 to 4 seconds.

So what about adding a warp speed acceleration bonus so that instead of 10% of the time it turns to 60% of the warp time at full speed.

And since I'm already writing to santa I might add: why not extend this bonus to mwd acceleration too? It's effects are pretty obvious and I would love to try it.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-22 18:26:33 UTC
Number 17 wrote:
I know that with recent changes interceptors have been left behind and are pretty much repleaceable by any other frig.


No, not really.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2013-05-22 18:34:16 UTC
All the inties are more or less terrible

Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-22 19:05:37 UTC
for 1vs1 vs another frig yes they are terrible

but that's not what they were designed for.

The warp speed is fine, they can catch many things even if they warp after them a few seconds later

Art of Explosions
Drunken Bum
#5 - 2013-05-22 19:20:12 UTC
Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#6 - 2013-05-23 02:05:17 UTC
The Interceptors definitely need some love and I'm confident CCP is going to give some when they rebalance them. They just need slots, fitting and stat buffs, their bonuses are fine as it is and MWD sig reduction bonus is huge on tackling ships as well as point range, the combat interceptors especially were hit hard by the introduction of T1 attack frigs.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#7 - 2013-05-23 04:19:42 UTC
They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short.

Overhaul Dscan!
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-05-23 08:15:23 UTC
My complaint is also the target range. I'd like to have more targets locked up as I circle in so I can see what is breaking away due to damage and what is just fleeing. This would allow better decision making on the part of the interceptors to lock down people trying to pull out of fleet engagements without putting you in as much danger.

But that goes back to what folks have said above. Interceptors are a fleet specialist hull. Even in smaller gangs they can be less than ideal since they have low DPS and low staying power most of the time.
Number 17
COLD-Wing
#9 - 2013-05-23 08:36:07 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short.


No they are not, hence my thread. Maybe my solution is not the best, but it is clear that something needs to be done about this, maybe if you undocked you would notice that you see all sorts of frigates replacing interceptors in fleets. mostly faction frigs.

I eve fleet composition is about every pilot adding to the fleet, interceptors add very little nowadays and sometimes they are a -1.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-05-23 09:42:44 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
All the inties are more or less terrible

Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus)


Combat Interceptors aren't great, because they're treading on the toes of what AFs and the T1 combat frigates do, and the idea of tiercide is that T2 isn't always automatically better. They probably need a new role (like "super god damb fast" for instance)

The Tackle Interceptors have the point range bonus that makes them unarguably better at their specific role: getting and maintaining a point. They not intended to be better at raw boat-violence than even the T1 combat frigates.

Anyone who disagrees is a moron.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#11 - 2013-05-23 09:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Garresh
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
All the inties are more or less terrible

Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus)


I agree in regards to combat/dps frigs, but the long point tackle ceptors are still useful in their niche. the 29km point by default, with their stupidly good speeds allows them to outrun drones and hold points on larger ships.

..That said, I still wind up using a Jaguar more often than a Stiletto when flying tackle, so I also think that ALL interceptors need some love. But TBH, that's because I often run my tackle Jags with a scram dual prop fit. Basically it's a fit designed specifically to **** on sniper fleets, which are incredibly common these days.

Tldr; Combat inties suck the big one, Tackle inties are viable, but can be outclassed depending on fleet comp and targets.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#12 - 2013-05-23 11:48:24 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short.


Given their role this is the only thing I don't like about them too.

They're cheap and effective for what they're used for, namely as an augmentation to a fleet for

- tackle (duh)
- scouting
- setting up perches
- setting up safes
- going ahead of the fleet to form a rolling safe
- establishing a tow-line
- uncloaking ships on a gate

Seems to me when I add all that up, that it's acutaly a damned USEFUL ship to have a few of in a fleet.

It would be nice, however, if they could actually lock a target that you're approaching before you get in point range. I find it irritating that an "interceptor" with a point range bonus has such a short locking range that you're usually well within point range before you can get a lock, giving the other guy (imo) too much of a chance to get away . Lock ranges really need to be 60-70km. Otherwise things just happen too fast.

Sure, they're squishy as hell but if they weren't you'd have an uber tackler and they'd be overpowered. That's why they were nerfed to begin with.

I'm siding with "working as intended"
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-05-23 11:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Malcanis wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
All the inties are more or less terrible

Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus)


Combat Interceptors aren't great, because they're treading on the toes of what AFs and the T1 combat frigates do, and the idea of tiercide is that T2 isn't always automatically better. They probably need a new role (like "super god damb fast" for instance)

The Tackle Interceptors have the point range bonus that makes them unarguably better at their specific role: getting and maintaining a point. They not intended to be better at raw boat-violence than even the T1 combat frigates.

Anyone who disagrees is a moron.



Point range is cool, although long range pointing is mostly done by recons atm. But their targeting range is pathetic and their fittings are a joke.

You seem to think that i'm saying that the tackle inties are bad because they aren't good at fighting, i reserve that for the combat ones. The truth is that the only tackling inti thats properly useful is the stiletto and even that is rather pathetic.

The thing is that interceptors cannot function properly with JUST speed and point range. They also need the fittings to actually put crap on the ships, they need tank to survive long enough to hold tackle (At the moment they sort of tend to die before anything else can show up) they need the dps to be able to shoot down drones and they need midslots to field proper ewar (On a frigate, a midslot is worth two lows basically)

So i say again, yes the tackling range on inties is nice.

But they are still ****.

TL:DR; Tackling inties are better than combat inties at their given role but they are still terrible.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2013-05-23 12:50:16 UTC
Lets go trough the list of interceptors:

  • Crusader: Crap. completely overshadowed by the Slicer. In fact it should be like the Slicer on steroids. Give it same bonuses as slicer in addition to small signature etc.
  • Malediction: Absolutely awesome ship! In my opinion it is the best interceptor in the game.
  • Crow: Use similar to Malediction, more DPS but less tank and point range. Good to use.
  • Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one.
  • Ares: Crap, but I never flow one.
  • Taranis: In theory and past this was a DPS beast with high speed... but double webs everywhere killed it.
  • Claw: Really crap. Too short range, too short less DPS, no tank all if you wanne be speedy.
  • Stiletto: Good for tacking due to 4 slots.


In my opinion following things are needed to fix interceptors:

  1. raise their targeting range by 30% in general.
  2. give all of them one more medium slot.
  3. all combat interceptors should get a range bonus for their guns: Crusader, Taranis and Claw. (Crow is fine as it is)
DeadDuck
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#15 - 2013-05-23 12:52:16 UTC
Mostly all the tec2 ships, except, recons and AF's need a revamp. I'm quite sure that after these late changes to tec1 ships CCP will start looking at HAC's, Command Ships, etc..
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#16 - 2013-05-23 13:31:18 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


The thing is that interceptors cannot function properly with JUST speed and point range.



Depends on the role you've assigned to them. Personally I think that most people fit them incorrectly because they don't fully understand the role they're playing and/or they use them for a role for which they aren't ideally suited (putting a square peg in a round hole), which can give one the impression that they aren't very useful ships.

Take a raptor, for example.

It's easily fit to be faster than heavy missiles or even the fastest drones. And with the full monty of bonuses, heat, drugs and implants, that ship is faster than flaming snot.

The raptor is also quite flexible. It can have a locking range out to 50km (before bonuses) with a sensor booster or it can use the utility mid for a module of your choice, like an AB, target painter, turret disruptor, scram, web or even a medium ASB or a shield extender if you don't like sig/speed-tanking. It also has more than enough dps to shoot down light drones if any do manage to get close. Add to that some mild pimping with a 33km point (before bonus) and I would describe it as anything besides useless for the role of light tackle..... and that's only ONE of the roles it can have in a fleet.

You're obviously not going to use it to solo a battleship but you'll certainly hold on to one long enough for your friends to get there. In fact, the bigger the target, the more useful an interceptor becomes. Where they become useless is when you try to do things with them that they're not good at.... but what ship isn't?

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-23 13:40:30 UTC
^ wholeheartedly agree with above post.

What I've been taught in e-uni by an exceptional inty pilot from (i think) agony is that there's 3 layers of tackle. There's no universal "tackle" roles.

Initial or first tackle: it's job is to hold it on grid, by any means prevent the warp. Stay alive long enough for secondary tackle to arrive.

Second tackle: it's job is to slow the target down enough for the rest of the fleet to catch up and if necessary take over initial point if the other guy is getting low on hp. Fast frigate (often another inty but more directed towards tank and fit with a web as well as point.)

3rd tackle: glorified dps fit with web+scram. It's job is to be as unappealing target as possible to the victim while locking it down.

inties are great at the first 2.

Art of Explosions
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#18 - 2013-05-23 13:48:54 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Lets go trough the list of interceptors:


  • Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one.
  • Ares: Crap, but I never flow one.





I'm not trying to be rude, but that ^^ pretty much says it all. I think if you're going to declare something "crap" it's a good idea to have flown it at least once. And sure, dual webs are bad. so are smart bombs if you're trying to orbit at zero. The reason it think people have trouble flying interceptors is because they're tying to do the wrong things with them. (hint) The interceptor's guns literally should never be put on the primary target. It's best used as a fleet support vessel, not a solo PVP vessel..... They're supposed to get tackle and the GTFO as soon as someone in fleet has a secondary point. You're not supposed to go in balls deep with them on everything you attack.....

Understand their role and you will understand that none of them are "crap". If you're going to try actually killing the primary with a frigate sized ship then look at AF's. I think you'll find that they can actually do what you seem to be expecting from interceptors.

Quote:

In my opinion following things are needed to fix interceptors:

  1. raise their targeting range by 30% in general.
  2. give all of them one more medium slot.
  3. all combat interceptors should get a range bonus for their guns: Crusader, Taranis and Claw. (Crow is fine as it is)


I'd fully support point #1. Point #2 isn't really a big deal for inty's that have 3 slots already but for the couple that only have 2 slots it would really improve your options. Point 3 doesn't make any sense to me. The guns only need to have enough range to deal with light drones in order to do with those guns what they're meant for.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-23 14:04:59 UTC
Drunken Bum wrote:
Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand.


+100

Geez people. They are already on the list to get some love.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#20 - 2013-05-23 14:12:00 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Lets go trough the list of interceptors:


  • Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one.
  • Ares: Crap, but I never flow one.





I'm not trying to be rude, but that ^^ pretty much says it all. I think if you're going to declare something "crap" it's a good idea to have flown it at least once.


Sorry for being too short here. I think they are crap because so far I haven't found their benefit over Malediction and Stilletto from looking and toying with their fits, this is also the reason why I haven't tried them out. But I would be happy if you could enlight me and tell me where or under which conditions they excel over Malediction and Stilletto.
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