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[Odyssey] Large Energy Turrets

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Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#781 - 2013-05-21 11:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Lasers are crap. So are most laser ships. People are always screaming "scorch this, scorch that" , but they never tell you how you are supposed to use that "range advantage" in cap starved brick that is highly suspectible to neuts, tds and has terrible tracking and utility.

When the forums were full of "buff blasters" threads, everyone was crying about how blasterboats need the capability to get into blaster range. But noone gives a **** that laserboats need the capability to keep the distance between them and target to be effective. Noone cares they are worthless bricks that can never choose the fight because they are slowest things around.

Ccps vision of the eve :
Winmatar (master race) - massive versatility, capless weapons with selectable damage, ability to choose the fight and outrun anything. Special note : ALWAYS present as underdogs to keep more buffs coming.
Gallente - facemelting dps, great tracking, ability to get into range, good utility, second only to winmatar (except some special ships). Special note : gallente ships have NEVER enough dps and tracking and should be able to evaporate everything in blaster range under 10 seconds. If you must bring "at 30cm range my megatron cant hit bs moving 0,5m/s" argument.
Caldari (pve race) - any ship that can compete with gaylente or winmatar gets nerfed, ships, that could possibly compete with them in future get useless bonuses, low speed or crap layout. Or everything. Special note : caldari ship pilots are considered "carebears" thus their opinion is never valid, if people are asking for fixing broken aspects of caldari weapon systems, start making up fantastic scenarios about shooting targets 200k away painted with bazilion target painters.
Amarr - targets for galente and winmatar, designed with lowest number of mids, worst utility, worst fittings, cap hungry weapons etc. so they arent overly dangerous to new winmatar and gallente pilots. Special note : when thread about fixing amarr ships/weapons pops up, always bring scorch argument and start making up fantastic scenarios where scorch owns blasters and autocannons combined. Use spreadsheets if you must, just protect projectiles and blasters at all cost!


This is epic.

I lul'd at first, then thaught about it and stopped laughing. Unfortunately, this seems fairly accurate of CCP's balance idea's about the 4 races. In a voice interview online, CCP Rise said he played gallente, and wasn't impressed with amarr, meaning he didn't like them. So, later, when he's in charge of balance, guess which of those two gets buffed, and which gets trashed.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#782 - 2013-05-21 12:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Deerin wrote:
John 1135 wrote:

It's a bad idea. You're effectively adding a damage bonus to an Amarr spec cap module. CCP won't do that and if they did then they've made Heat Sinks mandatory. Supporting this idea disingenuously injects a pretence of positivity into the thread.

Doctrines that were using any other kind of Amarr BS are now going over to navy geddon. The only Amarr BS that will have a cap bonus built into the hull after Odyssey.


I'm at a loss for words. So there shouldn't be any positivity in the thread and only whines?!?! He at least put a possible solution which can be tweaked to be used.

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.


The problem is that tachyon alpha is already 75% of artillery alpha, and if you double the damage on heat sinks, it will quickly overcome artillery alpha. Also 20% damage would be a nerf compared to 10% damage and 10.5% rof(what equals 24%).

While I don't think it is really needed and cap issues are far better to balance with changing the cap stats on the hulls, adding a 5% cap reduction for lasers to heat sinks would archive the same thing without increasing alpha to artillery levels.

Another option would be simply a buff to the discharge rigs, giving it 5-10% more laser cap reduction, since it is already the preferred way to reduce cap hungry setups to more manageable levels.

@John I find your opinion that heat sinks are not mandatory today stated in the same post while trying to predict fleet doctrines by a bonus that can easily compensated by fitting 1-2 rigs very amusing.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#783 - 2013-05-21 13:16:41 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Deerin wrote:
John 1135 wrote:

It's a bad idea. You're effectively adding a damage bonus to an Amarr spec cap module. CCP won't do that and if they did then they've made Heat Sinks mandatory. Supporting this idea disingenuously injects a pretence of positivity into the thread.

Doctrines that were using any other kind of Amarr BS are now going over to navy geddon. The only Amarr BS that will have a cap bonus built into the hull after Odyssey.


I'm at a loss for words. So there shouldn't be any positivity in the thread and only whines?!?! He at least put a possible solution which can be tweaked to be used.

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.


The problem is that tachyon alpha is already 75% of artillery alpha, and if you double the damage on heat sinks, it will quickly overcome artillery alpha. Also 20% damage would be a nerf compared to 10% damage and 10.5% rof(what equals 24%).

While I don't think it is really needed and cap issues are far better to balance with changing the cap stats on the hulls, adding a 5% cap reduction for lasers to heat sinks would archive the same thing without increasing alpha to artillery levels.

Another option would be simply a buff to the discharge rigs, giving it 5-10% more laser cap reduction, since it is already the preferred way to reduce cap hungry setups to more manageable levels.

@John I find your opinion that heat sinks are not mandatory today stated in the same post while trying to predict fleet doctrines by a bonus that can easily compensated by fitting a 1-2 rigs very amusing.


Well arties alpha is OP atm and really needs too be swapped with ROF like it was originally really lasers and missiles should be the alpha weapons...
Anyway the idea was to help with cap and introduce a unique module to lasers that can give them a short term damage advantage using the OH mechanic .. something that could be balanced with the laser rebalance when they do it.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#784 - 2013-05-21 13:52:17 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Deerin wrote:
John 1135 wrote:

It's a bad idea. You're effectively adding a damage bonus to an Amarr spec cap module. CCP won't do that and if they did then they've made Heat Sinks mandatory. Supporting this idea disingenuously injects a pretence of positivity into the thread.

Doctrines that were using any other kind of Amarr BS are now going over to navy geddon. The only Amarr BS that will have a cap bonus built into the hull after Odyssey.


I'm at a loss for words. So there shouldn't be any positivity in the thread and only whines?!?! He at least put a possible solution which can be tweaked to be used.

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.


The problem is that tachyon alpha is already 75% of artillery alpha, and if you double the damage on heat sinks, it will quickly overcome artillery alpha. Also 20% damage would be a nerf compared to 10% damage and 10.5% rof(what equals 24%).

While I don't think it is really needed and cap issues are far better to balance with changing the cap stats on the hulls, adding a 5% cap reduction for lasers to heat sinks would archive the same thing without increasing alpha to artillery levels.

Another option would be simply a buff to the discharge rigs, giving it 5-10% more laser cap reduction, since it is already the preferred way to reduce cap hungry setups to more manageable levels.


Mael 8 1400 2 gyros alpha 10.7k
Abaddon 8 tachs 2 heatsinks 5.6k alpha atm. 6.5 k if you switch rof to damage.

Yes it comes with a slight nerf to total dps (1.229/1.2=> 2.4%), but you gain cap efficiency and alpha. Well worth it IMO.

Of course there are other and probably more elegant solutions. This thread exists to discuss them.

So far it was a whinewall.

Changing cap stats on hulls is also a change to other aspects of game (neuting, remote repping, local repping,energy transferring etc.) To make a change to hull cap amount solely by thinking energy weapon cap consumption will result in imbalances at other areas. I think CCP is trying to avoid that.

Another thing that came to my mind is: The racial BS skill gives different bonuses for different ships. A possible change would be giving a minor global bonus via that skill. For example:

Amarr Battleship

%2 reduction to cap consumption of all large energy turrets per level when used on an amarr ship.

This way ALL large energy turrets on all amarr ships will beneft from a cap reduction by your amarr battleship level

Amarr Cruiser

%2 reduction to cap consumption of all medium energy turrets per level when used on amarr ship.

This way ALL medium energy turrets on all amarr ships will beneft from a cap reduction by your amarr cruiser level

Gallente Battleship

%2 ammo capacity on all large hybrid turrets per level when used on a gallente ship.

Minmatar Frigate

%2 reduction in reload time per level for all small projectile turrets when used on a minmatar ship.

Caldari Cruiser

%2 reduction in CPU for all medium sized launchers when used on a caldari ship.

Small bonuses that do not have a very strong effect, but make life easier.
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#785 - 2013-05-21 14:18:36 UTC
Deerin wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Deerin wrote:
John 1135 wrote:

It's a bad idea. You're effectively adding a damage bonus to an Amarr spec cap module. CCP won't do that and if they did then they've made Heat Sinks mandatory. Supporting this idea disingenuously injects a pretence of positivity into the thread.

Doctrines that were using any other kind of Amarr BS are now going over to navy geddon. The only Amarr BS that will have a cap bonus built into the hull after Odyssey.


I'm at a loss for words. So there shouldn't be any positivity in the thread and only whines?!?! He at least put a possible solution which can be tweaked to be used.

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.


The problem is that tachyon alpha is already 75% of artillery alpha, and if you double the damage on heat sinks, it will quickly overcome artillery alpha. Also 20% damage would be a nerf compared to 10% damage and 10.5% rof(what equals 24%).

While I don't think it is really needed and cap issues are far better to balance with changing the cap stats on the hulls, adding a 5% cap reduction for lasers to heat sinks would archive the same thing without increasing alpha to artillery levels.

Another option would be simply a buff to the discharge rigs, giving it 5-10% more laser cap reduction, since it is already the preferred way to reduce cap hungry setups to more manageable levels.


Mael 8 1400 2 gyros alpha 10.7k
Abaddon 8 tachs 2 heatsinks 5.6k alpha atm. 6.5 k if you switch rof to damage.

Yes it comes with a slight nerf to total dps (1.229/1.2=> 2.4%), but you gain cap efficiency and alpha. Well worth it IMO.

Of course there are other and probably more elegant solutions. This thread exists to discuss them.

So far it was a whinewall.

Changing cap stats on hulls is also a change to other aspects of game (neuting, remote repping, local repping,energy transferring etc.) To make a change to hull cap amount solely by thinking energy weapon cap consumption will result in imbalances at other areas. I think CCP is trying to avoid that.

Another thing that came to my mind is: The racial BS skill gives different bonuses for different ships. A possible change would be giving a minor global bonus via that skill. For example:

Amarr Battleship

%2 reduction to cap consumption of all large energy turrets per level when used on an amarr ship.

This way ALL large energy turrets on all amarr ships will beneft from a cap reduction by your amarr battleship level

Amarr Cruiser

%2 reduction to cap consumption of all medium energy turrets per level when used on amarr ship.

This way ALL medium energy turrets on all amarr ships will beneft from a cap reduction by your amarr cruiser level

Gallente Battleship

%2 ammo capacity on all large hybrid turrets per level when used on a gallente ship.

Minmatar Frigate

%2 reduction in reload time per level for all small projectile turrets when used on a minmatar ship.

Caldari Cruiser

%2 reduction in CPU for all medium sized launchers when used on a caldari ship.

Small bonuses that do not have a very strong effect, but make life easier.



...or they can just give the same cap bonus to Large Amarr BS hulls that they do to small and medium.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#786 - 2013-05-21 17:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Deerin wrote:
...


My bad, for some reason I always have the 7500 figure for tach alpha in mind, I blame my pve habits.

Actually I went 3 stages with this change:

1: Wat? Doing the numbers and breaking it down to mod/slot changes, it didn't looked like much after the changes to lasers.
2: I argued with Malcanis on FHC that the navy Apoc doesn't get such a big buff overall. Then Garth dropped a comment and I did think "Wait a second, you guys will never need that if you don't want it for..., oh snap." and then I did feel suddenly like a total ******, looking at stats while fitting it up to current standards instead of thinking about how it will change the fitting and metagame first.
3: I'm not really sure if it is intentional or if somebody used CSM magic, convincing CCP that it will be no big issue.

In favour of thinking Rise is very clever person and managed to get it in without anybody noticing it, I keep my mouth shut. I think the buff here is a little compensation especially for new players, while the real buff is a complete other one. I for myself now would feel very silly to ask for more. I even could agree that keeping the cap bonuses is the more sensible solution overall and I am pretty sure the changes will give Rise a headache very soon on the balancing roadmap. Lasers and the Apoc will be at a new high of game breaking performance after the patch, quite similar as before CCP introduced locus stacking.

Edit: For capacitor buffs, I think that it is something that sets amarr apart from other races. If it is on a laser focused hull there are little issues with it, being actually cap flexible instead of cap starved. The days of non laser fitted amarr hulls are actually coming to a end, while CCP dropping cap bonuses and you want to utilize the new bonuses. I think the Omen should be balanced around being able to keep it manageable without a cap booster in a nano fitting similar as the stabber(same as it is between Zealot vs Vagabond). I actually would even call it balanced on the Paladin, since the extra cap efficiency(once you have cap imps) sets it apart, providing a extreme flexible platform that is highly efficient in gangs.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#787 - 2013-05-22 05:15:55 UTC
The Djego wrote:

The days of non laser fitted amarr hulls are actually coming to a end, while CCP dropping cap bonuses and you want to utilize the new bonuses.


Arty Abaddon fleets say "citation required".
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#788 - 2013-05-22 06:45:42 UTC
Deerin wrote:

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.

This gives lasers quite a bit more alpha, something that needs to be taken into consideration. Also, if you fit up post-Odyssey Amarr battleships with an active armour tank and cap booster you'll find that they have much the same cap life as hybrid, and even using T1 ammo superb applied damage, because of thier combination of high optimal and excellent tracking.

Of course, as we all know, unless they are totally cap-stable lasers do no damage, and as we also know, the size of a ship's engagement envelope is unimportant, and so lasers will remain rubbish. <= Sarcasm, for those who find it hard to recognise such.
Disiri Skai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#789 - 2013-05-22 08:32:02 UTC
Why do people keep saying Artie's are op? Rokhs are the new kings of alpha fleets, since the introduction of tidi the slow ass rof on Artie's are slowly falling out of favor. Couple with the rokhs higher ehp it's slowly being replace the mael in fleets as more people train for it.

I think lasers should be easier to fit but continue to have cap issues, I think it's their defining characteristic to munch on cap. I would like to see people chose the size of their guns base on how much cap they want to use not base on how they will gimp their fit to just fit the guns.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#790 - 2013-05-22 13:49:16 UTC
Disiri Skai wrote:
Why do people keep saying Artie's are op? Rokhs are the new kings of alpha fleets, since the introduction of tidi the slow ass rof on Artie's are slowly falling out of favor. Couple with the rokhs higher ehp it's slowly being replace the mael in fleets as more people train for it.

I think lasers should be easier to fit but continue to have cap issues, I think it's their defining characteristic to munch on cap. I would like to see people chose the size of their guns base on how much cap they want to use not base on how they will gimp their fit to just fit the guns.


Has anyone tried to pull the same thing with Abbys and megabeams? Megabeams stat wise are very similar the biggest rails and may be they could be made cap tolerable for an engagement. The higher DPS compared to arties would have the advantage it woulkd seem if you can apply it. It would also be better post oddesey since they are gaining fitting and cap buffs.
John 1135
#791 - 2013-05-22 16:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: John 1135
The Djego wrote:
@John I find your opinion that heat sinks are not mandatory today stated in the same post while trying to predict fleet doctrines by a bonus that can easily compensated by fitting 1-2 rigs very amusing.

So your argument is

1. Heat sinks are mandatory now, so it doesn't matter that they will be mandatory in future.

2. You can't think of better purposes or wider options for rigs than compensating for cap use. So you're fine using them that way.

3. You aren't aware of shifts in the meta that have already occurred.

Creating a module to fix a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place is a poor trajectory for design to take. Good design should broaden options and allow more interesting emergence.
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#792 - 2013-05-22 18:09:18 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Disiri Skai wrote:
Why do people keep saying Artie's are op? Rokhs are the new kings of alpha fleets, since the introduction of tidi the slow ass rof on Artie's are slowly falling out of favor. Couple with the rokhs higher ehp it's slowly being replace the mael in fleets as more people train for it.

I think lasers should be easier to fit but continue to have cap issues, I think it's their defining characteristic to munch on cap. I would like to see people chose the size of their guns base on how much cap they want to use not base on how they will gimp their fit to just fit the guns.


Has anyone tried to pull the same thing with Abbys and megabeams? Megabeams stat wise are very similar the biggest rails and may be they could be made cap tolerable for an engagement. The higher DPS compared to arties would have the advantage it woulkd seem if you can apply it. It would also be better post oddesey since they are gaining fitting and cap buffs.


Even with the fitting changes in Odyssey, Mega-Beams are still obnoxiously tight to fit and fire without devoting numerous modules/rigs to that purpose (remember mega-beams take almost the same cap as tach's). There is no reason to endure that headache when Scorch accomplishes nearly the same thing. The Rokh doesn't face nearly the severity of fitting tradeoffs fitting the best rails to the Abbadon trying to fit the second best beam.
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#793 - 2013-05-22 18:12:06 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Deerin wrote:
John 1135 wrote:

It's a bad idea. You're effectively adding a damage bonus to an Amarr spec cap module. CCP won't do that and if they did then they've made Heat Sinks mandatory. Supporting this idea disingenuously injects a pretence of positivity into the thread.

Doctrines that were using any other kind of Amarr BS are now going over to navy geddon. The only Amarr BS that will have a cap bonus built into the hull after Odyssey.


I'm at a loss for words. So there shouldn't be any positivity in the thread and only whines?!?! He at least put a possible solution which can be tweaked to be used.

Actually just making heatsinks a dmg only module is essentially what is needed. Instead of 10% dmg % 10.5 rof make it 20% dmg and cap issues will be mostly solved for higher amount of heatsinks. Yes it makes fitting damage mods much more viable and I believe it should be so for an amarrian ship.


The problem is that tachyon alpha is already 75% of artillery alpha, and if you double the damage on heat sinks, it will quickly overcome artillery alpha. Also 20% damage would be a nerf compared to 10% damage and 10.5% rof(what equals 24%).

While I don't think it is really needed and cap issues are far better to balance with changing the cap stats on the hulls, adding a 5% cap reduction for lasers to heat sinks would archive the same thing without increasing alpha to artillery levels.

Another option would be simply a buff to the discharge rigs, giving it 5-10% more laser cap reduction, since it is already the preferred way to reduce cap hungry setups to more manageable levels.

@John I find your opinion that heat sinks are not mandatory today stated in the same post while trying to predict fleet doctrines by a bonus that can easily compensated by fitting a 1-2 rigs very amusing.


Well arties alpha is OP atm and really needs too be swapped with ROF like it was originally really lasers and missiles should be the alpha weapons...
Anyway the idea was to help with cap and introduce a unique module to lasers that can give them a short term damage advantage using the OH mechanic .. something that could be balanced with the laser rebalance when they do it.


I agree completely, especially with changing the OH mechanic. That seems extremely bandaid'ish and a pvp-centric bandaid at that.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#794 - 2013-05-22 19:57:42 UTC
no candies for amarrs , matar fanboys dont like to be shot back at
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#795 - 2013-05-22 23:43:40 UTC
Samas Sarum wrote:
Airto TLA wrote:
Disiri Skai wrote:
Why do people keep saying Artie's are op? Rokhs are the new kings of alpha fleets, since the introduction of tidi the slow ass rof on Artie's are slowly falling out of favor. Couple with the rokhs higher ehp it's slowly being replace the mael in fleets as more people train for it.

I think lasers should be easier to fit but continue to have cap issues, I think it's their defining characteristic to munch on cap. I would like to see people chose the size of their guns base on how much cap they want to use not base on how they will gimp their fit to just fit the guns.


Has anyone tried to pull the same thing with Abbys and megabeams? Megabeams stat wise are very similar the biggest rails and may be they could be made cap tolerable for an engagement. The higher DPS compared to arties would have the advantage it woulkd seem if you can apply it. It would also be better post oddesey since they are gaining fitting and cap buffs.


Even with the fitting changes in Odyssey, Mega-Beams are still obnoxiously tight to fit and fire without devoting numerous modules/rigs to that purpose (remember mega-beams take almost the same cap as tach's). There is no reason to endure that headache when Scorch accomplishes nearly the same thing. The Rokh doesn't face nearly the severity of fitting tradeoffs fitting the best rails to the Abbadon trying to fit the second best beam.


Yah, I guess I was looking at some data and realized it was from the outdated Evelopedia, that preexisted the hybrid buff. I had beams up 25% DPS, not 5% like reality. So at at point no reason to try currently and is at best marginal post patch.
Kreeia Dgore
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#796 - 2013-05-23 06:38:16 UTC
Energy weapons suck. They lack something to be competitive. While I am ok with sticking to EM and TH damage, I can't see any real advantage they have. No ammo? Not true, the only usefull ammo on lasers is consumed when used. No travel time for projectiles? Very lousy argument, other guns don't have problems with this either. Cool looks? Since missiles got fixed I'm not sure this is a valid point. Oh, and instantaneous ammo switching... what a great thing that saved many lives in both pvp and pve!
I found out that I am much more effective with my Raven in L4s with most skills at 3 (LULZ!) than with my Apoc, with everything trained to lvl 5 skills. But my Raven can do missions anywhere, my apoc only in amarr space.
Lasers need some love for their incredible drawbacks which aren't countered by any serious pros. -10% to cap usage isn't love, it is a promise of "romantic evening" spend at the back seat of father's car when driving to pizza hut for family dinner. Sadly no rebalance for lasers is planned so I have no expectations on this field.
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#797 - 2013-05-23 16:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Samas Sarum
Kreeia Dgore wrote:
Energy weapons suck. They lack something to be competitive. While I am ok with sticking to EM and TH damage, I can't see any real advantage they have. No ammo? Not true, the only usefull ammo on lasers is consumed when used. No travel time for projectiles? Very lousy argument, other guns don't have problems with this either. Cool looks? Since missiles got fixed I'm not sure this is a valid point. Oh, and instantaneous ammo switching... what a great thing that saved many lives in both pvp and pve!
I found out that I am much more effective with my Raven in L4s with most skills at 3 (LULZ!) than with my Apoc, with everything trained to lvl 5 skills. But my Raven can do missions anywhere, my apoc only in amarr space.
Lasers need some love for their incredible drawbacks which aren't countered by any serious pros. -10% to cap usage isn't love, it is a promise of "romantic evening" spend at the back seat of father's car when driving to pizza hut for family dinner. Sadly no rebalance for lasers is planned so I have no expectations on this field.


If you look at CCP Rise's last post in the Amarr BS post, they are planning a laser overhaul. Talk is cheap though and of course no timetable was given. We'll probably have to endure these ass ache fittings at least in the short term.
Kreeia Dgore
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#798 - 2013-05-23 16:38:56 UTC
Samas Sarum wrote:
Kreeia Dgore wrote:
...


If you look at CCP Rise's last post in the Amarr BS post, they are planning a laser overhaul. Talk is cheap though and of course no timetable was given. We'll probably have to endure these ass ache fittings at least in the short term.

As a matter of fact I didn't know about that, so thank you very much good sir, I am running to check that right away! Laser overhaul, that wasn't there since... well, years!
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#799 - 2013-05-23 16:55:37 UTC
Rise

The EM/Therm resits is an important point for pvp and pve..

PVP

- some ships mainly T2 can easily tank lasers due to high EM/Therm resistance and others can easily fit their ship to counter it .

PVE

- missions where laser ships can only do certain ones because of the resists i don't know why all NPC's aren't just omni tanked

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#800 - 2013-05-23 17:34:28 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Rise

The EM/Therm resits is an important point for pvp and pve..

PVP

- some ships mainly T2 can easily tank lasers due to high EM/Therm resistance and others can easily fit their ship to counter it .

PVE

- missions where laser ships can only do certain ones because of the resists i don't know why all NPC's aren't just omni tanked



because variety is better than homogenization. Npcs are supposed to be different. Wnat to fight NPC with different resistances? Change region!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"