EVE General Discussion

People don't understand. Its not supposed to be "Risk versus Reward", its "Bored versus Reward"

Take FW LP whoring. All you do is risk a cheap frigate with warp stabs and a clone with no SP so if you're podded there is no isk loss involved.

You can makes hundreds of millions in a day, but it involved you watching 20 minute timers hours on end per day. I did it for a while, but found it more boring than mining.

Sure you say "But you risk a frigate!" but the rewards are quite more than you get if you were missioning with a battleship.

The real trade off is doing boring tasks for a reward.

Gate camping is an example of this as well. Boring as hell most of the time, but eventualy you get rewarded for doing a boring task.

Also, do you think people would really mine if it didn't pay anything? Its boring as hell.

[edit]

Also there is no risk in ganking. You go into knowing what you are going to lose and if you know the right targets, you know its 100% reward rate. Unless you fail horribly at ganking which I have seen people brag about using hurricanes to kill ventures.

Still there is no risk. Your loss is 100% guaranteed. There is no doubt on the loss of your ship. Thats not risk. That is just expenditures.

Also which also involved the teduium and boredom of hunting the right targets. Not everyone you scan will have a fail miner fit. It takes a while to find targets and there again is an example of boredom verus reward.

if only, after years, ccp would finally understand this maybe their 1000$ designer jeans were too tight in some spots

Nope.

EVE is a sci fi virtual world with its own economy. There is no game rule that states that those who take the most risk get the biggest rewards. Neither is there any game rule that states that those who expend the most effort get the biggest rewards.

Where is the risk in scamming people using margin trading, station trading of "faction" ships, or "I'll double your ISK"?

The only risk in suicide ganking the 30B ISK officer-fit marauder in a hisec mission hub is that the loot fairy will look upon you unkindly.

Where is the reward in mining Jaspet in low sec while flying a Covetor?

Your assumption is easily falsified.

It's not the carebears or pvprs thst are bad for the game.

Its the poor CEO in empire who hasn't read a dev blog or been on the test server or actually tries and encourages their members to think for themselves and try something new and different, beyond moving to a different agent to spend another year shooting red crosses.

New players join the game after reading our awesome headlines and then they meet rubbish CEOs who convince them to mine or shoot red crosses.

Instead of asking if they've completed the tutorial linked a frig fit asked if they can fly it and if they can't provide skill book and ir ship snd fit. Show them how to set up their overview and get thrm on voice comms.

Take em to low sec snd find something to shoot at. Customs offices grab peoples attention if theres no one else around in belts.

Teach them how to dscan from a safe spot to find the badger picking up pi mats and loot the wreck. Theres or the badgers.

This is the only game that instills a mode of thinking that involves a sense of fair play. Even Dust players arent immune when infiltrated by spies.

Typed on phone (.

What exactly is a carebear anyway?

Is this a term for people who avoid any and all PVP at all costs? I think this is a rare player.

If a carebear is someone deemed "risk averse", then it's a player that is found across the board. Let's face it, being in a large fleet is protection. No big deal.


Very often the complaints about carebears appear to come from bored gate campers who want somehow for people to be funneled into their overviews for target practice, but anybody who is involved in the game enough to care about it that much should know better, that it's never so simple.

But to understand the question then is to try to understand what a carebear is not, but then, from the so-called "other side", all that the PVP crowd has demonstrated is stupid ship loss for which refitting takes time, and where does the ISK come from?
(Usually from a highsec carebear alt - like every PVPer has a fat girlfriend they don't want anybody to find out about)

If you want to blur the lines and make more PVP/Emergence happen, you have to change the missions.

Yes the missions.

Missions are from whence everybody starts out you see. If this was a total kill or be killed space fest (guild wars in space, go figure) it would be different - we'd have instead a majority of PVPers and people trying to mine and produce things coming into the forums wondering why there weren't more people in industry.

So that mission, whether you can malign it as "easy loot" or a boring grind that causes bad habits, is the core of the game. There are people who grind missions and have time for little else, and they resent that. There are those for whom PVP creates a demand for ISK and materials and they have to grind or buy plex and they resent that.

(Pro Tip: really good pirates do manage to live off pirating but since 2006 when the game turned into "kill everything that moves for no reason" that has not been so common nor as easy as it used to be. Ransoming is all but dead.)


Change the missions to include PVP from the start, and the game changes.

Why get too deep into the mechanics? Simply put, PVP-based missions where your target is another player that the system can seek out as being equally matched through statistics might be the ticket. Will some people not want to be a part of this? Of course, but as usual, we can write about incentives and all that. Look at what Goonaggedon accomplished. I would imagine that players working for pirate factions can take missions that other players are taking against those same factions. Why not? If such missions existed from day 1, everybody would be used to it.

But then maybe certain high payout missions might have a PVP hybrid to them?

Take the incursions for example. There are Sansha sympathizers out there (some just like being the bad guy, some are into the RP aspect). Would it not have been good to let them play too, helping the bad guys in some manner that there could be PVP in the complexes?

Now look at what I just wrote. Look at what Incursions have become: an elitist (except for the efforts of a few good people) shiney ship ISK grind pageant. To suggest letting other players assist the Incursions and result in PVP would probably get me tarred and feathered at Fanfest now that "things are the way they are" for so long now that what was simply game content is now somebody else's entitlement.

(Sense of entitlement not only infests the game, but the entire world too)

So some missions with PVP elements would suffice to help people across this barrier. Lowsec FW missions have this element already, it should be spread into select high sec missions for all skill ranges. I would even say that this element is "mission only" meaning you are not someone else's mission target unless you are running missions against factions yourself. But I would imagine that eventually the NPC factions vying for control of resources would want to give kill missions to players.

All merely suggestions - but the bottom line here is that as long as the PVe/PVP wall remains so high and thick, this argument and these threads are never going to end. Add in a little touch of people having a sense of entitlement (to ISK or KB stats) and an inability to get over themselves, this is just another thread.

Carebears are like pornography, you know it when you see it.

Anyway, what is this guy on about?


Go with the Code
www.minerbumping.com

There are no griefers around here and its the bears making almost all the threads.

uh, shooting the statue (with Incarnarage) was not "Burn Jita".


"Burn Jita" has happened two times, shortly after Fanfest 2012, and just before Fanfest 2013. Their purpose is to (effectively) disrupt trade in Jita for the weekend of the event. Works pretty well too.

Train "Eve History" to L1 before posting again

Who cares about the profit loss matrix projection. It's supposed to be a game, as in , have fun? Half the people I blow up I warp off and forget to even take the loot. I just want a spaceship fight. Capitalism makes everything boring.

TO YOU!!!!

While to other people, the profit is the fun part while the ship-to-ship PvP is a annoying sub-plot that reduces profitability.

There is no "right" way to play EVE, other than in a way that YOU enjoy. And NO, not everyone enjoys the same things.