EVE General Discussion

I think this puts it nicely:


But in all honesty, there shouldn't be a distinction between "carebear" and "PVPer". What I mean is, we all PVP -- be it on the markets, or at belt 1, or moon 1-1.

Way I see it is that the marketeers, industrialists, traders, etc have their "home turf" on the market screen, and the combat pilots are at a disadvantage. Their "recourse" then is to take things outside, and settle things with antimatter.

Fair point, I suppose. They give me a rash and get in the way. You can farm 'em if you wish.

I believe he was called Sir Bartholomew Awoxington

Yea I don't remember the guy's name, it was before my time, but I did come across it in an article once.

Definitely emergent however.

I don't particularly care if somebody isn't interested in PvP. I do care if they refuse to accept that they are not completely safe anywhere and that avoiding PvP is an active process, not a switch you turn on or off.

Carebears are the one who actually take the risk in this game. Undocking in ship fitting that are unable to perform PVP and PVE to and acceptable level put them in a place where they cannot defend themselves from pvp pilots and perform PVE combat. Ganking is most of the pvp in the game outside of Null and the carebear is always at a disadvantage. Own a freighter or pve BS? 6 trash fit sebo/T2 Gyro tornadoes can pop you with little trouble they don't need tank or acceptable combat fittings . The ganker fleet will be out much less ISK than the lone carebear who has no chance to fight back.

Miner / mission/ freighter ganking has proven this time and time again as if it wasn't profitable and easy to perform it would not happen multiple times every day.

I don't know if you were responding to my original post, but my idea was just opposite of that. And I do think people should play how they want, they just might consider not complaining about their choice publicly. Example: your date decides to wear high heels out to dinner. Fine, nice even. She should not however, get to whine about it all night and blame YOU for it. It was her decision. Extrapolate then: It is my belief that carebears and PvPers alike shouldn't whine about the legitimate play styles of their counterparts. As you said, play how you want.

I was hoping this thread might generate ideas for those complaining (carebears being those who avoid PvP and complain having to) a way to vent their frustration more productively. A trade embargo with null sec players obviously wouldn't work. I've already established that the idea of industrialists fighting gate camps is ludicrous... I can't think of a solution, thus the challenge. Is there some resource PvPers need and can only get from carebears that the carebears could control? A hi sec technetium? Broader market manipulation? Obviously their delicious tears are an example but that cannot be regimented. Carebears would never log on - the equivalent of curing the disease by killing the patient. I guess I was optimistic that the carebears would even read this and additionally that someone could offer ideas about a tactical recourse to ganking besides whining on the forums and avoiding certain systems. I'm starting to think that this has no solution and has too many logical holes to contend with (if care bears stop whining, do they cease to be carebears?).

Maybe people just like whining. But for the amount of people who whine about OTEC, the 'blue donut' and the Goons, they sure don't seem to do **** about it. If ya can't beat em...

As a pretty much dyed in the wool "carebear", you're wrong. Don't want your PvE ship to explode? don't tank solely for the rats you're fighting, don't be afk, know about game mechanics that let others gain legitimate aggro timers on you, don't fit overly shiny modules, be aware of who the ganking groups are and set them to bad or terribad standings so that they show up differently in local and on the overview, don't cry in chat when you die, ask your opponent where you went wrong and above all don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Once again you're wrong, if you're hauling an excessive ISK value in a ship that is made of paper mache then it's entirely on you when you get ganked, the gankers don't determine if a gank is profitable or not, the person being ganked does. I carry no more than 10,000 isk per EHP of my hauler (200,000,000 isk in a 20,000 EHP ship for example) usually less, anything more than that is the equivalent to having a neon sign on the back inviting people to 'splode my arse. Your PvE BS will be fine, as long as you don't fit it with all sorts of shiny crap, attract attention to yourself, do something excessively stupid or undock it during a war.

Don't call it easy until you've tried it, a gank squad of destroyers or tier 3 battlecruisers requires organisation, planning, pre planned undocks, concord baiting, scouts who ship scan and a good knowledge of game mechanics, teamwork is pretty much always going to triumph over a solo effort. It happens multiple times per day purely because people take no precautions against it.

Attacking commercial and industrial shipping is the very definition of piracy throughout history, why should it be any different in the future?

Last but not least, consider your ship dead when you undock in it, if you get to dock back up in it, consider that a bonus.

What this thread needs is more beards

Well...it pokes some rather large holes in it actually.