Ships & Modules

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From what I can see, the Golem actually has a pretty substantial damage increase over the CNR. There's more than one fairly common rat which should be killed in a volley less than the CNR. I think the most important thing to take home is that the ROF bonus lets the SNI be surprisingly powerful for having the same real DPS.

-Liang

So I've been playing with your spreadsheet a bit. Here's a few comments:
- Most of the profiles are useless. I removed them from mine.
- You should swap the order of Damage Per Missile and Launcher Duration. It makes data input harder the way you have it.
- I think it makes more sense to have a format of "CNR -- BLA2, 2xFlare1 -- Fury" instead of what you have now.
- The implants thing is much better.

I'll get some interesting data on what I'm seeing up shortly, but I'm quite surprised by what I'm seeing.

-Liang

y u bling but go cheap on rigs?

I was looking at something similar earlier today in the EFT DPS chart. The 1500 DPS Typhoon FI trumps the CNR against battleships up to 40(?)km, but against everything smaller or further away it tends to get out performed by the CNR (cruise + 3 sentries.)

Since TPs boost sentries, missiles and guns and since TPs provide a bigger boost than Rigor rigs, I also tried a 4 TP version with shield resists in the rig slots which didn't perform as well.

Anyway, without doing some field testing, i.e. I'm relying on the applied damage from the EFT DPS chart, I would hazard to say that the CNR would perform better as a mission runner than the TFI.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Garde II x5
Garde II x1
Hobgoblin II x10

Feature requests:
- ISK per missile for estimating run cost per hour.
- It would be helpful to have columns specifically for Fury/Prec and then visualize based on display side.
- It would be helpful to be able to define a series of rats and sum(min(ttk)).
- It would be swell if you could adjust all the implants at the same time (3->5% for example). Or even do it by implant group (ROF separate from Damage etc).

Then again, this is starting to sound more like an application than an excel spreadsheet. Also, perl is easy to read. :)

-Liang

So let's take a wholistic look at what should be possible completion times for various ships in the spreadsheet.

I'm going to lead with these assertions:
- 4x CN BCU, 2x Rigor II, Flare II is the correct damage application setup.
- 4x CN BCU, BLA II, 2x Flare I is the correct raw damage setup.
- Eve-Survival is correct about what is in an Angel Haven (I've never run one)

Angel Haven (from Eve-Survival)
- Arch Gistum Liquidator: 5
- Arch Gistum Centurion: 3
- Gistatis Primus: 17
- Gist Seraphim: 4
- Gist Cherubim: 9
- Gist Malakim: 6
- Gist Throne: 5

Ship Completion Times

Rigor CNR (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 949.19
- 2 Painter: 924.86
- 3 Painter: 884.31

BLA CNR (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 952.5
- 2 Painter: 891.54
- 3 Painter: 891.54

Rigor Typhoon (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 906.56
- 2 Painter: 857.84
- 3 Painter: 857.84

BLA Typhoon (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1022.95
- 2 Painter: 948.67
- 3 Painter: 834.27

BLA Typhoon (5% HW, 3 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1115.49
- 2 Painter: 1069.3
- 3 Painter: 924.8

Rigor TFI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 957.3
- 2 Painter: 916.75
- 3 Painter: 892.42

BLA TFI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1272.54
- 2 Painter: 922.02
- 3 Painter: 861.06

Rigor Golem (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 949.19
- 2 Painter: 924.86
- 3 Painter: 884.31

BLA Golem (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 952.5
- 2 Painter: 891.54
- 3 Painter: 830.58

Rigor SNI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1040.49
- 2 Painter: 906.56
- 3 Painter: 857.84

BLA SNI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1182.86
- 2 Painter: 994.35
- 3 Painter: 948.67

---

Rigor CNR (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1043.73
- 2 Painter: 1018.89
- 3 Painter: 977.49

BLA CNR (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.78
- 2 Painter: 980.28
- 3 Painter: 980.28

Rigor Typhoon (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1087.37
- 2 Painter: 931.95
- 3 Painter: 931.95

BLA Typhoon (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1127.26
- 2 Painter: 1050.39
- 3 Painter: 922.08

BLA Typhoon (3% HW, 3 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.1
- 2 Painter: 1126.9
- 3 Painter: 997.1

Rigor TFI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1002.28
- 2 Painter: 935.96
- 3 Painter: 911.12

BLA TFI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1322.6
- 2 Painter: 941.38
- 3 Painter: 918.04

Rigor Golem (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1085.18
- 2 Painter: 1018.89
- 3 Painter: 977.49

BLA Golem (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.78
- 2 Painter: 980.28
- 3 Painter: 956.94

Rigor SNI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1137.13
- 2 Painter: 981.63
- 3 Painter: 963.0

BLA SNI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1283.78
- 2 Painter: 1097.06
- 3 Painter: 1050.39

---

Sorted 3 Painter, 5% HW Completion Times
BLA Golem: 830.58
BLA Typhoon: 834.27
Rigor Typhoon: 857.84
Rigor SNI: 857.84
BLA TFI: 861.06
Rigor CNR: 884.31
Rigor Golem: 884.31
BLA CNR: 891.54
Rigor TFI: 892.42
BLA Armor Phoon: 924.8
BLA SNI: 948.67

Now, at this point I'm going to interject these statements:
- This ignores the outsized drone bay on the Phoon and Phoon Fleet
- This ignores the 2 extra bonused slots on the Phoon Fleet
- 3 Painters on a Phoon is gonna be hard to do with 4 BCUs. But the rewards are pretty amazing.
- The Golem appears to be the most practical good performer.
- I ignored frigates on the assertion that they could be adequately dealt with via drones. Some ships (the Typhoon and Golem specifically) are particularly good at mowing down elite cruisers with precision. This is not modeled.

Ship Fit Commentary:
- Common CNR fits today have 1 painter, so the extra mid should allow for a 2 painter setup with relative comfort.
- It's relatively simple to squeeze 3 painters on a Golem and SNI due to the tank bonuses.
- It's relatively simple to squeeze 2 painters and 4 CN BCUs on a Phoon and TFI, but much harder to get 3/4. 3/3 is fairly easy.

So the ships we're most interested in looking at are in reality:
- 2 Painter TFI, Typhoon (4 BCU), CNR
- 3 Painter SNI, Golem, Typhoon (3 BCU)
- Cheap 3% HW, T2 BCU fits

Sorted Likely 5% Fits
BLA Golem: 830.58
Rigor SNI: 857.84
Rigor Typhoon (4 BCU, 2 Painter): 857.84
Rigor Golem: 884.31
BLA CNR: 891.54
Rigor TFI: 916.75
BLA TFI: 922.02
BLA Typhoon (3 BCU, 3 Painter): 924.8
Rigor CNR: 924.86
BLA Typhoon (4 BCU, 2 Painter): 948.67
BLA SNI: 948.67

Sorted Likely 3% Fits
Rigor Typhoon (4 BCU/2Painter): 931.95
Rigor TFI: 935.96
BLA TFI: 941.38
BLA Golem: 956.94
Rigor SNI: 963.0
Rigor Golem: 977.49
BLA Typhoon (3 BCU/3Painter): 997.1
BLA CNR: 980.28
Rigor CNR: 1018.89
BLA Typhoon (4 BCU/2Painter): 1050.39
BLA SNI: 1050.39

Sorted Likely 3%/T2 Fits
Rigor SNI: 1050.05
Rigor Phoon: 1062.96
Rigor CNR: 1134.92
Rigor TFI: 1169.66 (Armor 3 BCU fit)

I think at this point there should be enough raw data floating around that people can make informed decisions about what to fly. I'd personally recommend a Golem or maybe a shield tanked Typhoon.

-Liang

Ed: A bunch of edits to add data.

Ty very much for the hard work , i like it very much . What i learned from it is that the normal raven is faster then the CNR, i think that is because the damage projection bonus from the CNR is lost because of T2 rigs and Tp. So i guess CNR will be better for pvp?

I'm really hard pressed to know why the CNR would be better for PVP given that it doesn't have any utility high slots.

-Liang

at * cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf

i don't see the typhoon part, can you add that? i really need normal typhoon stat compare to others