Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I was a bit slow on the uptake, but I think I understand you better now. You want wars to matter, even in hisec, or perhaps especially in hisec (so many people there). There is a similar thread called Making a Corp a "big deal" that touches on this too.

The important thing about internet space ships, is that it isn't about the internet space ships. It's all about the people interacting with each other. I fully agree that wars have the potential to become something much more than they currently are, a real conflict of interests. I don't think that inherited killrights (or similar for people running away) is the right way to go here, it's too much like personal harassment towards people who may not want to participate. Something more drastic is called for, the idea behind the wardec needs to be looked at.

Wars are best if they are fought over limited resources or ideals. Something other than just killmails. Paying for gank rights may be called a wardec, but it isn't really a war unless both parties have something worth fighting over. If there is nothing of value to defend there is no inscentive to fight.

Example: Imagine a system where hisec corps can upgrade their presence in limited areas of NPC faction space via a permanent POS, upgrades that mean something in terms of payouts and taxes in the area. But there should also be a limit to the total amount of upgrades that can be built in an area, the pie is only so large, so those who wish to upgrade must first tear down what others have already built. The wars could then be restricted to just certain solar systems where these upgrades are physically in space, but the bonus should cover a wider area so that the defenders can still generate isk. Players can then decide to stay out of the warzones if they want to, but they have multimillion worth of upgrades that will go down in flames if they don't bother to fight, and their isk revenues will be lowered when these upgrades are destroyed. Being in a corp with many upgrades would be directly beneficial for a player, more effective than the 1-man 0% tax corps, and thus encourage banding together. In a situation like this, a war would actually mean something for all parties involved, and it would limit the ability of an agressor to just milk the defender on easy killmails. This is far from perfect, but good enough as an example of how wars could be turned into something worth participating in.

Instead of using the POS mechanic, which is far from ideal, some are suggesting a means of using deadspace pockets. I homey feel, can be guarded with turrets and use POS-like structure, but no shields so no massive fleets needed to take down even an inactive tower. Complex warfare in faction warfare is often touted as some of the best, because it limits ship sizes and gives smaller groups a chance against larger blobs.

The key is that, whether your using POS's, deadspace pockets, or even Dust districts ... you have to reward the players for teamwork and sticking with it. I have been imagining a system where, when a player signs up for a corporation, they can sign up for various 'programs' where mission running, r&d, and mineral/ore deposits from that player all contribute to a much larger overall goal, a staged reward.

Grind? Only way I see it, and maybe someone can find away around that. But you grind so many missions, as a contributor for your corporation, and you make it possible to increase your mission payout for yourself and corp members by 2,4,6,8, and 10%. The corporation nets a reward, and 'levels', due to the intensity of the corporate members.

Here's the crux: if a member leaves, their contribution leaves with them. Let's say your hit by war, and your premiere mission runner jumps corp because of it. You may lose several levels, all dependent on his amount of contribution. And if he comes back, he has to earn them all over again.

Somehow connecting the levels and bonuses with in-space items that are not easily destroyed would make spacial assets more important to hisec corporations. But the vicious mix of greed and selfishness, the 'I play this game for me only' and 'I'm not paying some other player to defend me' that is so prevalent in so many hisec corporations ... this will ruin any attempt to make the perceived value higher.

Because as I've pointed out in this thread: it's not about being attacked. It's about disrespect for another player's choice of gamestyle, specifically pvpers and pirates.

That's pretty much my feelings in a nutshell. Though I do have a small, trusted social group that I play with, with player-made corporate programs, it still lacks the 'necessity' that being in a good corp has in losec and nulsec.

Sure, most of hisec is anti-social solo players. But for players like myself, its mainly because I don't have more than an hour or two a day in-game most of the week to do anything, and being in a good nulsec corp often requires far more dedication and focus than that.

I still believe that members of a corporation inherit the work, cost, and wars of that corporation, and that the application of kill rights is a fair addition to the current system for those leaving a corp. It's not so overpowered as preventing them from leaving, or too troublesome as changing war dec's to assign to individuals and causing issues with friendly aid. But it still helps seat that feeling of responsibility.

But other posters get to the heart of the problem: until there is a reason, beyond loyalty to a name or a few of your corp members, there is nothing really supporting a player to NOT leave and avoid the war. Nothing makes participating in ship-to-ship combat in hisec valuable, unless you are the aggressor. There's nothing to defend.

Both need addressed, and I would even argue the second issue is the more important.

I have certainly said in enough threads that one of the biggest issues with current PvP is that there is nothing worth dying for. There is plenty worth killing for, but nothing to die for.

It's an interesting idea to start granting bonuses to corps for PvE activities, expecially if you can tie them not only to the corp, but a specific area so that it does not become a simple matter to simply move about 20 jumps and resume as if nothing happened.

A new tier of Mission, meant to be run in groups (I know level 5's exist) with appropriate additional reward, that only unlocks from an agent once a certain corp standing is reached with that specific agent. Special LP store rewards could also be possible.

These benefits should degrade over time, so that the activitiy must remain continuous and active to attain and retain the bonus.

People will still evade war decs, but at least they would now have a reason to stand their ground.



Edit: Certain Agents, similar to locator agents, could be added so that a corp looking to start a war could research their enemies and see who has upgrades and might be less likely to flee a wardec because of them. Other info like current corp wallet balance, member locations, etc could also be made available for a price. Even better if hacking were upgraded so that any POS could be hacked for this information as well, and in general if POS could be hacked and had jobs and stuff installed in them and lock out the slots from the owning corporation.

/thread