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So i was looking through the chronicles and I found this...
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Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#1 - 2013-05-15 20:27:21 UTC
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hands_of_a_Killer_(Chronicle)


Took the advice of my last thread and have been reading these wonderful things in order.

Needless too say now I understand why some of the fan fiction writers use soft cloneing too keep some of their key crew alive, (except for the obvious reasons of not wanting to have to redo some character too character interaction by creating a new crew member) It is sad when you hire a crew only to be the cause of their deaths.

So when you are out in space and your ship turns into bright little pixels, what do you like too think happens too the crew of your ship. This is all personal opinion, so do not worry what is cannon or not. For example I take a darker side too this, most of my crew will unfortunately die as they will most likely not have enough time to get too warp capable escape pods, however are free from my original contract if they choose too be

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
YuuKnow
The Scope
#2 - 2013-05-15 23:57:34 UTC
Personally I think crews this far in the future are irrelevant and the capsuleer is the only human onboard. Its the 21st century and we already have pilotless planes and ships. Why does anyone need a crew? Just get some androids and nanites to do the maintenance.

yk
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#3 - 2013-05-16 01:08:34 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Personally I think crews this far in the future are irrelevant and the capsuleer is the only human onboard. Its the 21st century and we already have pilotless planes and ships. Why does anyone need a crew? Just get some androids and nanites to do the maintenance.

yk


From an engineering perspective, those unmanned aircraft you mentioned have a very large logistical and man power footprint. It doesn't remove the human element. It simply shifts it to other roles.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
YuuKnow
The Scope
#4 - 2013-05-16 02:51:02 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
Personally I think crews this far in the future are irrelevant and the capsuleer is the only human onboard. Its the 21st century and we already have pilotless planes and ships. Why does anyone need a crew? Just get some androids and nanites to do the maintenance.

yk


From an engineering perspective, those unmanned aircraft you mentioned have a very large logistical and man power footprint. It doesn't remove the human element. It simply shifts it to other roles.


Humans have an even larger logistical and manpower footprint.

yk
Gen Fesslenski
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-05-16 07:58:45 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hands_of_a_Killer_(Chronicle)


Took the advice of my last thread and have been reading these wonderful things in order.

Needless too say now I understand why some of the fan fiction writers use soft cloneing too keep some of their key crew alive, (except for the obvious reasons of not wanting to have to redo some character too character interaction by creating a new crew member) It is sad when you hire a crew only to be the cause of their deaths.

So when you are out in space and your ship turns into bright little pixels, what do you like too think happens too the crew of your ship. This is all personal opinion, so do not worry what is cannon or not. For example I take a darker side too this, most of my crew will unfortunately die as they will most likely not have enough time to get too warp capable escape pods, however are free from my original contract if they choose too be


As a capsuleer, you have no crew AFAIK. That was the whole point of being a casuleer. You're so neurally integrated into the system that you maintain everything down the little intricacies as if it was your own body (your body being maintained by the pod itself).

As a pilot, i would say that ships in Eve die rather fast and battle is so tuned that you often sit on a blade edge between winning and losing... Abandon ship is not an order that can be belayed as as soon as you give it you have lost. I can't see anyone getting out of most engagements. Maybeits different on the Gallente side, but we already know how Amarrians are treated when they retreat anyway, (Marshalled and killed, see the later stages of Vak'Atioth) so most of them would rather kamikaze and retain thier honor.
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-16 10:16:34 UTC
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

Just to point out, we do have crew, and depending on the engagement, many may or may not survive Blink

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-05-16 10:59:35 UTC

Who would be dumb enough to crew a capsuleer vessel?

That means every time Jimmy gets ganked, 15,000 people die Shocked

No one needs a job that badly.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#8 - 2013-05-16 11:29:50 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:

Who would be dumb enough to crew a capsuleer vessel?

That means every time Jimmy gets ganked, 15,000 people die Shocked

No one needs a job that badly.

If it pays well enough for your entire family to live well their entire lives, I can see plenty of people signing up despite the risks.

Amarrad - Amarr language project
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#9 - 2013-05-16 11:50:11 UTC
Erm, these crews don't come "as standard" right?

When I went on a insurance fraud spree melting battleships with alts I wasn't killing millions without noticing right?...

Right...?

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#10 - 2013-05-16 13:56:49 UTC
Marcus Gord wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

Just to point out, we do have crew, and depending on the engagement, many may or may not survive Blink
Yup. It's canonical that EVE hulls have crew. Besides, these are damned large vessels - and highly sophisticated ones. Who would be so silly or ill-informed about the nature of large mechanical objects as to beleive that there'd never be systems fauilures or mechanical breaks-down whilst underway? Of course there's a need for living crew. Maintenance remotes can handle most things easily enough, but the very nature of 'malfunction' means that some are going to be unpredictable, and thus require human supervisors - even sometimes human hands.


So - Crew.
My guess is, mostly desperate and/or despairing people. People who need to provide for families, or pay off debts, and have no other means. People running away from failed love affairs or fleeing jealous spouses - or jealous business partners. Fleeing perhaps abusive familes or partners. Or people who simply have no other place to go. Down-n-out'ers; hobos; bums; alkies-n-druggies; people with criminal records or chronic failure to make good life decisions; the desperately poor with no other upwards ladder... Harbor trash, in other words.
Gutter sweepings.
Mostly.

There will be some professionals - the core of any crew - who are willing to chance the fate that faces so many thousands of crew every day out of professionalism, pride, tradition, or other over-riding personal motive. Maybe they started out as harbor trash and have found a way of life. Maybe this is their leap upwards, looking for a brass ring to grab. Who knows? But it's these guys who will get paid the most, who will hammer the crew into shape, and who are most likely to survive the ship's destruction - *they* know how to get out!

Capsuleers will devlop reputations.
Shipping with Silens Vesica is a fairly good bet - he's cautious, and even though he takes risks at times, they're calulated risks with everything tipped as much as possible in his favor. He's going to have no problem finding a solid crew.
Plastic Psycho, on the other hand, takes random chances, and is quite likely to put himself - and his crew - in harms way. P. Psycho is going to get a lower quality crew mostly consisting of criminals, losers, and hard cases.
Subdolous Venator is insane. The word is out - Stay the HELL away from him and his ship! He hires mercenary press-gangs to go and find his crew, mostly consisting of substance abusers and the suicidally incautiously naive or n00bish... Gods help anyone the press gang, because those poor bastiches are going to die in a fire out in Nul.

Likewise, certain ship classes are going to develop reputations. Everyone wants to serve on a Titan. It's large, it's roomy, it has lots of people, it almost *never* sails into harms way, and when it does, it almost always has a support fleet accompanying (dabigredboat is an exception - no one wants to fly with him right now - titan or no titan!). Titans are durable, and die rarely, even when placed into battle. Likewise for Super caps, caps, and dreads. Riskier, but still a good chance. BBs? Everyone wants to be a battleship sailor, right? Maybe not... CCs? Scary billet - no one wants to be on a battle cruiser - not unless suicidally brave or incurably ambitious. T1 Frigates die like flies - and so do their crews. Gutter-sweepings for crew!
And so it goes.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-05-16 14:15:23 UTC
There was a fanfiction a while back, though I forget who wrote it, where a recruiter was going around hospices and terminal care wards all over New Eden hiring people to sign on as a fighter pilot.

the idea was simple: "you come work for the pilot, we pump you full of enough medicine, cybernetics and whatever else to keep you functioning, and you get to do something badass and amazing with the rest of your life. Survive a year, and we'll look into cloning you and then you can go on your way with a load of ISK. Deal?"

I like that angle, personally. and of course with the new DUST merc implants, there's no reason that ship's crew couldn't have those nowadays, though it would get very expensive very fast for a pilot.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#12 - 2013-05-16 14:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Stitcher wrote:
There was a fanfiction a while back, though I forget who wrote it, where a recruiter was going around hospices and terminal care wards all over New Eden hiring people to sign on as a fighter pilot.

the idea was simple: "you come work for the pilot, we pump you full of enough medicine, cybernetics and whatever else to keep you functioning, and you get to do something badass and amazing with the rest of your life. Survive a year, and we'll look into cloning you and then you can go on your way with a load of ISK. Deal?"

I like that angle, personally. and of course with the new DUST merc implants, there's no reason that ship's crew couldn't have those nowadays, though it would get very expensive very fast for a pilot.

That would be effective - And if the payoff is held to the end of the contract, potentially fairly cost-effective, too: Dead volunteer, no payout. And if so, the temptation to send volunteers close to payout on suicide missions becomes very hard to resist - And easy to justify: "You've got the most experience, and this is a tough, must-succeed mission..."

Then, there's the old 'Company Store' scam which could be run, as well - Good pay and benefits, but everything you need, from medical care to toothpaste, comes out of your pay - at inflated rates. Soon, you're in debt, and are working for free - except that you're getting deeper in debt every day...

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#13 - 2013-05-16 20:47:59 UTC
It would be interesting if this could be tied into the explosion of capsuleers over the years. We are the ones that served, survived, and were rewarded as per our contracts by the capsuleers they previously served on releasing the deposit to convert us to immortals. That way ever capsuleer has an ambitious, capable and motivated crew, and one with reason to take such ridiculous odds.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
YuuKnow
The Scope
#14 - 2013-05-16 22:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Cipher7 wrote:

Who would be dumb enough to crew a capsuleer vessel?

That means every time Jimmy gets ganked, 15,000 people die Shocked

No one needs a job that badly.


This.

I hated that the lore writers bent to old, boring, and cliche sci-fi canon by making space ships seem like flying cruise-liners with crews and ship quarters, etc.

yk
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2013-05-17 01:53:06 UTC
First thing to keep in mind: crew usage probably scales with what you are trying to do as well.

A battleship out for a multi-week tour of operations cut off from friendly territory in nullsec or W-space, for instance, may want to carry excess crew simply to account for a certain percentage being out-of-action at any given time due to sickness/injury/etc, as well as replacement crew for casualties in battles the ship itself may survive.

A battleship out for a few hours before it returns to a home station would probably carry something closer to an 'average' crew - enough to get the ship fully functional, but not as much of a 'safety blanket' of spare crew.

A battleship that is going to undock in highsec, warp to a gate, and suicide itself onto a freighter would probably carry the bare minimum of crew needed to keep the ship from falling to bits.


Second thing to keep in mind: There are escape pods, they do survive, and if you have warning your ship is going to go down soon they probably survive even longer. This is important when considering suicide gankers - those ships crew are probably starting to eject as soon as they land on field with their target, let alone by the time the ship goes GCC.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#16 - 2013-05-17 03:09:43 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
It would be interesting if this could be tied into the explosion of capsuleers over the years. We are the ones that served, survived, and were rewarded as per our contracts by the capsuleers they previously served on releasing the deposit to convert us to immortals. That way ever capsuleer has an ambitious, capable and motivated crew, and one with reason to take such ridiculous odds.

This^

That would indeed be a stellar motivation - And may explain why so many capsuleers are jerks, pirates, and griefers - How would *you* turn out if you were harbor trash who watched hundreds, maybe thousands of shipmates - some of them maybe friends or lovers - burned away callously by uncaring immortals? Then suddenly, you found yourself among the ranks of those immortals...?!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
chaosjj
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-05-17 08:42:44 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Personally I think crews this far in the future are irrelevant and the capsuleer is the only human onboard. Its the 21st century and we already have pilotless planes and ships. Why does anyone need a crew? Just get some androids and nanites to do the maintenance.

yk


^^^ This^^^
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#18 - 2013-05-17 15:57:49 UTC
chaosjj wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
Personally I think crews this far in the future are irrelevant and the capsuleer is the only human onboard. Its the 21st century and we already have pilotless planes and ships. Why does anyone need a crew? Just get some androids and nanites to do the maintenance.

yk


^^^ This^^^

Lore says otherwise - As linked above.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#19 - 2013-05-21 18:11:18 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

Who would be dumb enough to crew a capsuleer vessel?

That means every time Jimmy gets ganked, 15,000 people die Shocked

No one needs a job that badly.


This.

I hated that the lore writers bent to old, boring, and cliche sci-fi canon by making space ships seem like flying cruise-liners with crews and ship quarters, etc.

yk

Former submariner here - You really have no idea, do you? Automation only goes so far. Automated systems themselves break down. And somet hings simply cannot be accounted for in automation - 'the unexpected' literally means that you can't plan for it - and the unexpected happens. The best-programmed system still is limited by the imagination of its programmer.

You're going to NEED humans, even if only to supplement and supervise automated remote repair systems.

And that is *before* you take battle damage into consideration.

And no- they wouldn't be 'cruise ships.' There's nothing luxurious about the interior of a warship. Take a look at the innards of, say an aircraft carrier. Wow! that's *some* luxury, alright!


Put it to you another way: These ships are immensely complicated, extremely sophisticated systems. Anything that goes wrong impacts every other connected system. I can't believe that you actually think that such systems - designed and built by humans - are foolproof, and could mend themselves after battle damage without some level of supervision.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-25 01:09:47 UTC
Am I the only one who feels odd knowing that just running a mission or even ratting for a bit results in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
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