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[Proposal] COMPRESSION MECHANICS CHANGES (Rorqual/POS/Other)
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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-15 14:20:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Loney wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
So what 0.0 ice mongoloids are left with is 829750m3 worth about 1.72b per belt.
Now compare that to spending countless hours compressing **** in a rorqual to end up with 545000m3 worth 1.94b per belt.

Even if a rorqual can keep up with 10 hulks, why would you want to bother leaving exposed capital ships all over the place? You're better off mining out an anom, refining it, dumping the stront and water into a warehouse container, and then finding a nice grav site to mine somewhere.


This is very true... However that still does not mean the Rorqual will not be EVEN MORE broken after Oddessy.

You are forgetting one major fact in your plan however... HOW are you suspose to get the 5.4 million m3 from your ice belt to a refinery 3 jumps away to refine it... Your plan work fine if there is a refinery in an icebelt system, but lets face it not very many system in Nullsec have station in an ice belt system!

So you can now see that the fixing of the rorqual's compression is very needed... and or make a POS module for compression if they do not want to fix the rorqual.

Thanks for your input.


Build a refinery.
or
Anchor a POS with a shitload of CHAs to dump ice into/have freighters haul from. (I've considered this, you can fit 40 CHAs on a large minmatar tower for a combined 60m m^3 cargospace.)
and/or
Anchor a pos with a JB that points to a refining system.


I don't disagree that ice compression is broken. My point is that it's so broken that (assuming CCP even wants it as a mechanic) it's going to need either a complete overhaul (pos/station compression) or an absolutely massive boost to the amount of ice products that can be compressed in a rorq at any time.

In the meantime, we can just hide the stront and heavy water in a container somewhere and consider it a write-off.




e: For comparison, the 7.8m m^3 Large grav site compresses into roughly 50k m^3 after the patch. It's worth roughly the same as the proposed low-truesec ice anom at current ore and ice prices.
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#22 - 2013-05-16 03:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Loney
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Build a refinery.
or
Anchor a POS with a shitload of CHAs to dump ice into/have freighters haul from. (I've considered this, you can fit 40 CHAs on a large minmatar tower for a combined 60m m^3 cargospace.)
and/or
Anchor a pos with a JB that points to a refining system.

I don't disagree that ice compression is broken. My point is that it's so broken that (assuming CCP even wants it as a mechanic) it's going to need either a complete overhaul (pos/station compression) or an absolutely massive boost to the amount of ice products that can be compressed in a rorq at any time.

In the meantime, we can just hide the stront and heavy water in a container somewhere and consider it a write-off.

e: For comparison, the 7.8m m^3 Large grav site compresses into roughly 50k m^3 after the patch. It's worth roughly the same as the proposed low-truesec ice anom at current ore and ice prices.


I don't disagree with you either... there are many ways to move the ice/ore product as you pointed above... but again that are some flaws in your plan... you are assuming that you are a large alliance that owns the station and systems... If you are a renter you might not be able to anchor Jump bridges to station systems just for ICE mining (alliance use them for more tactical uses sadly).

And I find it easier to use a large ship assembly array or two instead of the bazillion corporate hanger arrays. But that still leaves Rorqual 1 rorqual like 16 hours to compress all the ice just from one anomaly it mine... at that rate it will never be compressed.

And yes refining it now is the way to go... unlike before when people could mine 50k dark glitter blocks... refining that was not much of an improvement honestly... but by forcing miners to mine all the ice the refine m3 is a lot better, as you suggested.


Tanks for your input,
Loney

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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-05-16 12:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Wait, you can dump ice into assembly arrays? I'm not sure you can, but I might throw up a CSAA or two in a couple systems if ice prices stay high enough.
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#24 - 2013-05-21 09:40:16 UTC
We need more input.

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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#25 - 2013-05-25 04:52:57 UTC
Loney wrote:
We need more input.


Not sure if I just didn't find the answer yet or a post hasn't been made by CCP yet... But today Sometime AFTER downtime I notice that the RORQUAL now allow members to compress ICE from any of the 3 bays (My Cargo, Fleet Hanger, Ore Hold) as BEFORE it only gave you the option of (My Hanger) to do compression from..

This now allows you t compress 250 block at one time instead of the previous limit of 137. Though this is great and seemed to be a serverside hot-fix cause I didn't recall al patch for it. They still need to do something about the compression time of ICE or number of manufacturing slots.

CCP you are doing great by fixing that simple drop-down menu... can you just change the number of Manufacturing slots now... that just a simple number fix too! make it 8 or 10 instead of the 4.... Or just adjust the ICE compression times bye 10-15 seconds.. that it...

thanks.

P.S. Can anyone else confirm this or am I just crazy after using the rorqual for YEARS?

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El 1974
Green Visstick High
#26 - 2013-05-27 13:38:28 UTC
I don't like this. The ice changes stimulate nullsec alliances to be more self-sufficient for ice products and work together with ice miners. If you improve compression you're just going to get 1 large group of ice miners for each of the isotopes exporting 95% of their ice to Jita while most alliances continue to get most of their ice products from Jita.
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#27 - 2013-05-29 08:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Loney
El 1974 wrote:
I don't like this. The ice changes stimulate nullsec alliances to be more self-sufficient for ice products and work together with ice miners. If you improve compression you're just going to get 1 large group of ice miners for each of the isotopes exporting 95% of their ice to Jita while most alliances continue to get most of their ice products from Jita.


Fact is fact... no matter the changes to whatever... Jita will always support 95% of all the products used by all in game... nothing is going to change that.

But fixing the broken ICE compression will help all eve pilots not just the 0.0 ones.

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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#28 - 2013-06-26 20:15:07 UTC
Back up there you go.

Agreed. This now more than ever, needs to be looked at.

Yaay!!!!
Infinite Force
#29 - 2013-06-27 17:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
Loney wrote:
Overall I like all the changes suggested in the Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog... However I have a suggestion related to the ICE/ORE mining.

If CCP is reducing the ICE in HIGHSEC and giving more ORE incentive for players to move players to LOWSEC or NULLSEC then you need to do something about the COMPRESSION game mechanics.

Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

If my numbers are not realistic (I think they are) please do your own calculations and adjust them as necessary.

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.

This could be done instead of changing the Rorqual stats or it can be done as a added feature/option.

Thanks,
Loney

I agree that the Rorqual could use a compression buff. To your points:

2. No. Refining at a POS, yes, compression, no -- not unless it's removed as a Rorqual feature.

1. Updating Rorqual compression:
a) Ore hold increase by 50%.
b) "Local" compression slots should be limited by a players manufacturing abilities - 11 slots total @ max skills.
c) Compression time should be decreased, but not more than 25%.

a, b & c work hand-in hand. Most producers that I know only utilize 10 slots, but 10 slots in conjunction with a modest Ore Hold increase and a modest reduction in compression time would be a huge buff to the Rorqual.

In regards to ICE (and ORE for that matter), the overall compression sizes should be similiar AND you should be able to support the same number of ICE miners as ORE miners. I haven't compressed "on-the-fly" in some time for any ops larger than 10 people, but the Rorqual pilot should be able to compress for a good-sized op - I would say for 20 people (2 squads / rorqual).

Other Rorqual changes that are needing to be made:
- Add another high-slot or two - for tractors or gang links. There are only 3 real gang links used - mining laser cycle time, range and shield resists - two Capital tractors and your Industrial siege.
- Removing the drone bonus as has been said, I'm indifferent to since a caught Rorqual is a dead Rorqual.
- Jump Range - A slight increase would be nice. More than a dread, less than a carrier. No additional modules needed.
- Scanner bonuses - remove this from the Orca too and add it as a mining barge or exhumer bonus per level

There are other changes / tweaks that could help this, but these are higher on the list that others, IMO.

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