Warfare & Tactics

PvE thank you very much. I agree with finding out what was in the self destructed ship. It shouldn't add too much additional strain to the server compared to the normal kill mails, if any.

As for your comments about posting in warfare and tactics, due to my current location (wh space - which is = to 0.0 in many aspects), I for one like to learn what I can to survive longer. Since I have to deal with possible ganking all the time, I should understand the tactics and logic behind it as well as possible, to give me the greatest chance of survival. You mentioned stupidity, thinking that only combat ships should ever be in low sec or null sec or whatever. Good luck with making that work. I've been killed being stupid enough times now that I want to make someone work for a kill against me. I will use every tool at my disposal to increase my pleasure while taking away the pleasure from those opposed to me and my style of play...just like can flippers, low-sec gankers and gate campers, corps that war dec mining corps for the lols, and so forth. If for some reason that means doing a self-destruct, then damn it I will do it. 'To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!' to quote the immortal Khan. Self-destruct writ large, I would say.

And as for the 'welcome to the sandbox' I see that from PvPs all the time, apparently it is only melodrama if someone opposed to your style of play says it in context with what they like to do. It is appropriate only when it is from your point of view? Come on. Keep in mind that part of the fun of Eve is that there are carebears to gank, stupid players in low/null sec, annoying gankers getting cheap thrills shooting someone unequipped/unskilled/inexperienced enough to fight back. Not to mention traders, freighters, faction warfare, mega-alliance warfare and so on.

On the subject of warp disruption, it's a very specific thing you're doing preventing them from forming the field necessary to travel faster than light. I'm assuming that would be some sort of "bubble", a field surrounding the ship that allows it to move through space. Bubbles are vulnerable to even very small holes.[/qoute]
heh. just imagine power needed to make this "bubble". And how big power will you need to break it....

simple phisics.....

Hmm...I'm no physicist but I just wonder...if you call the warp a 'field' perhaps or a 'bubble' no diff really. But imagine that for it to work on your ship for example, it requires a certain balance within the field. All a warp disruptor does is create 'ripples' within the field or bubble, throwing it out of balance. Thus the whole 'entering warp' fails. Again, just an idea. Not necessary that size makes a difference for it to work, merely balance of the waves.

Good point. Though I would hope that my warp drive would shut down instead of jumping or blowing. Failsafes.

Since warp is not possible once a disruptor is activated perhaps warp disruptors cause a 'disturbance in the force' or something, which prevents the warp field/bubble from forming. Yeah, I could live with that explanation.

To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee!

Edit:

White Noise,eh? My experiences with some of them up North (a while back): They will stick their thumb in your eye if they can, however they can, and it's a scraggly, rough, hangnailed thumb too.

No, allowing supercaps to magically disappear to avoid certain doom is dumbing it down.

This really works at any scale. Two fleets of similar sizes meet. One completely routs the other and successfully tackles or bubbles most of the other so they can't flee. The solution? Log off and what ships they can't destroy disappear in 15 minutes. It's MAGIC!

No matter what excuses you make for that, it's a silly mechanic that has contributed to the proliferation of supercaps that led to the problem we have today.


It's not "dumbing down", it's balancing. CCP said their original intent for titans was for there to be a few. Now (according to the sources I've read) there are hundreds. They wanted titans to be superweapons, not fleetships. Basically supercaps were not Working As Intended and they are correcting that.


...making fleet warfare in Eve much more realistic. Ever since we started building specialized combat ships, we have used mixed fleets so that the small, nimble ships could assist and protect the large ships that carried the heavy guns. In real life there have always been drawbacks to building massive ships with massive guns, one of the primary ones being that they are vulnerable to small ships able to outmaneuver them. Look at the make-up of any successful naval fleet since cannons were put on boats and you'll find mixed fleets.

Had the Japanese fielded all carriers or all battleships in WW2, it would have been a rather short engagement. It would make sense for Eve to reflect that need for diversity in fleets.

While I agree with the scout point, some players do find it hard to get others to help so go it alone(stupid? maybe but that might also be a calculated risk...that they lost). Whether someone else blew them up or they self-destructed, they still lost their ship.

To add to the thought process, if I were trapped in a freighter, I could not escape, but it looked like there was a stretch of time before my ship was blown AND my wife and or kids were bugging me for something, I might initiate the self destruct because, hey, I gotta go and I am not going to wait this out. If someone finds out what I lost, fine, but they still didn't kill me, I still don't think they should get the kill mail.

It does add a little more to varieties of what can happen in Eve. It's one last counter to someone for blowing up your (quite possible very valuable) ship. But, how about a penalty similar to what happens when you lose a T3? You lose a skill level? Make a pilot think twice about self-destructing a 30 day training time skill.

There are always other options. Taking away an ability sucks but giving options, with consequences isn't so bad.

And yeah, I've been kind of lucky to not lose more ships for almost 1.5 years of living in a wh, with only the occasional jaunt to high sec for a breather. And you never know, I just might decide to go PvP some day. Always good to come into it with at least a bit of knowledge of game mechanics.

You have labelled a gang without enough DPS as idiots, but that's fundamentally wrong because a gang cannot necessarily raise the numbers for sufficient DPS if there aren't enough guys online. However, an UNSCOUTED FREIGHTER pilot is an idiot because he doesn't have to move until he has a scout and a half decent escort, and thus the situation is avoidable for him. The point about the self destruct is that once the super cap or freighter is in trouble he has already made his mistake and should at least pay for the consequences via a loss mail.

You also say that "Self destruction isn't escaping the risk, its accepting it and denying the enemy in the process a record of achievement". If your enemy has managed to lock your ship down with a well planned trap then why should they not gain a tangible achievement? It's easy to say "oh who needs KM's, you know you forced the ship to self destruct so that's good enough" but that's not how human nature works and is why awards are giving in real life - for recognition of competency. It's not about greifing, its about gangs getting fair results.

For example, back to the original situation I described with the Obelisk. The result of the engagement was us popping 1 Vaga, me warping out in low structure after neuting theTengu point off, us losing a Geddon because another gang came through and got involved. We took the lossmails and posted them etc, but we dididnt have anything to show in return which is ridiculous because the Killboard does not reflect what happened - we don't gain a freighter kill but we DO end up with lossmails.

The self destruct/loggoski is a big issue for supercaps. They are hugely unbalanced at the moment because they get dropped on small gangs which then have to run. However, if the gang decides to bring cap support and fight then the pilot just logs and unless that gang can raise supercap support very quickly then the original supercap pilot survives. That is dumb because it doesn't require any planning or any thought from the original pilot, whereas if there was a risk then he would have to consider all circumstances before jumping in.

I know your response will be "get more DPS you noobs" and "get supercap support" but that's exactly what eve shouldn't be about. Supercaps should be rarer and used less frequently. The best PvP is subcap vs subcap and is why supers are getting nerfed.

In all honesty, do you PvP? I'd be amazed if you would put your ship into a high risk situation in which you knew you'd get lossmails if you died but couldn't get killmails.