These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

[Proposal] COMPRESSION MECHANICS CHANGES (Rorqual/POS/Other)

Author
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#1 - 2013-04-27 10:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Loney
Overall I like all the changes suggested in the Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog... However I have a suggestion related to the ICE/ORE mining.

If CCP is reducing the ICE in HIGHSEC and giving more ORE incentive for players to move players to LOWSEC or NULLSEC then you need to do something about the COMPRESSION game mechanics.

Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

If my numbers are not realistic (I think they are) please do your own calculations and adjust them as necessary.

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.

This could be done instead of changing the Rorqual stats or it can be done as a added feature/option.

Thanks,
Loney

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844

Crisiant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-28 03:27:12 UTC
+1
Master Account
Sky Net Industries
Artificial Intellagence
#3 - 2013-04-29 00:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Master Account
+1

I like the idea of making more options for compression instead of just the Rorqual as the bottleneck factor, but I think if they just change some of the stats on the Rorqual there would not be a need for other things like a POS or Station compression mechanics.

My ides for Rorqual:

GOOD THINGS

First - Make the ORE and ICE be taken from the ORE ICE cargo hold of the ship before compression and delivered to the SHIP cargo hold after compression. This will allow for 250 pieces to be compressed in one time instead of the CURRENT LIMIT of the SHIPS cargo hold.

Second - Give the Rorqual a ship bonus of -%5 production time for compression per level of ship skill. So with a level 5 Rorqual pilot you would have a -25% reduction time in the compression of ORE ICE products.

Third - give the ship more production slots. The current 4 slots limits the ships ability to actually be useful for compression when conducting a mining operation. Currently with the Exhumers abilities to mine massive amounts of stuff and with the suggested -50% decrease in ICE cycle time 4 slots is not enough to keep up with mining productions. I say increase the slot to at least 8-11 slots.

Okay now: I understand CCP's whole ISK sink vs faucet debate so I can't give recommendations for making things better without making them worse too!

BAD THINGS

First - For all the above added features of the Rorqual there should be some cost, right? Well I say that you should TRIPLE the Heavy Water usage while in siege deployed mode. This will not only make the extra features of the ship justifiable but also give a rise to the very under utilized and poor market factor of Heavy Water (though not by much honestly).

Second - Okay I don't have any other things.

This is my thoughts and I'm sticking to them!
Entellas
Sky Net Industries
Artificial Intellagence
#4 - 2013-04-29 07:17:01 UTC
Loney wrote:

Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.



Realistic I think it could be like this:

RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 0%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 300%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 0%.

The size of the bay is fine and so is the compression time (I mean its less ten a minute per cycle). The real problem is the limited compression slots of 4. The Rorqual should have 6 slots base with a ship bonus of +1 slot per level of ship skill. This would be a maxed skilled Rorqual pilot 11 manufacturing slots (which also happens to be a max slots a maxed skilled builder can use).

Summary: By only increasing the manufacturing slots from 4 to 11 this would make the compression mechanics of the Rorqual and game play more inline with its intentional gameplay.

I hope the CSM can really get the DEV's to take a look at this and make the simple ship changes to come out with the new patch.

I hope this helps!


Entellas
Sky Net Industries
Artificial Intellagence
#5 - 2013-04-29 07:27:32 UTC
Loney wrote:

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.


I like the idea of a POS module like the refinery... it would be up to the DEV's to decide the specs of it.

I also would like to add something that maybe you can edit STATION's so it can compress ORE too! This would have several benefits I see:
1. It would give the compress mechanics currently limited ONLY to the Rorqual other methods of compression.
2. It would also add more value to the compression industry, I mean seriously why do you even have ORE and COMPRESSED ORE's on the market as nobody buy or sell it cause it too much of a issue to do it.
3. It would reduce or eliminate the need for people to compress other items like rail guns and sensor booster, etc. I remember the reason you guys mad compression changes for lots of items but still people don't compress ORE and ICE cause its limited by again the HORRIBLE (for compression) Rorqual.

Summary: I like the POS module idea and I think compression should be allowed in stations too!

I hope this helps.
Horny Guy
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#6 - 2013-04-29 08:12:48 UTC
+1 Something needs to be done with compression mechanics!
Shellyine
Deep in your safe
#7 - 2013-04-29 08:14:03 UTC
Loney wrote:


1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.



YES for a rorqual boost, the ship should be the "rolls" of 0.0 mining ops. (nerf orca, only allowed in hi-sec/low-sec?)

I like the idea of the POS module BUT it should not replace the rorqual in his role.

So the POS module should work at full speed in 0.0, 50% speed in low-sec...
why not 10% speed in hi-sec and limited to one / pos
Zigam
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2013-04-29 10:23:24 UTC
+ 1
Kubla Kain
The Bilderberg Group
#9 - 2013-04-29 10:24:12 UTC
+1
Ninjajolic
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-04-29 10:25:13 UTC
+1
Temba Ronin
#11 - 2013-05-01 10:03:39 UTC
With the new expansion being about exploration how about some serious increases to the jump range of the Rorqual? It is after all supposed to be the ship that makes industrial gameplay possible in the nether reaches of non-empire space. Limit it to its current jump range in low sec but double it's range when jumping into or around in Null sec. Some additional fuel consumption penalty for longer jumps should been implemented and a larger fuel bay should be a module Rorqual pilots could add.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Bario Norte
Sky Net Industries
Artificial Intellagence
#12 - 2013-05-04 06:28:50 UTC
Loney wrote:
Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

If my numbers are not realistic (I think they are) please do your own calculations and adjust them as necessary.


Something needs to be done with the Rorqual if they are doing all these changes to ICE and expect that 20% of the ICE is not going to be mined in highsec.

After the patch the HULK will roughly mine 200 blocks of ICE an hour with max skills and an implant... The rorqual can only compress roughly 320 blocks of ICE and hour... this is THE STUPIDEST THING EVER!

1.5 HULK TO ONE RORQUAL for compression of ICE... I CCP was trying to make this a group activity for mining in 0.0 but do you really expect a corporation of 32 Exhumer pilots to mine for 1 hour and then ALL 32 jump into a Rorqual and compress for 1 hour?

The Rorqual need a few things done... Make the Compression RATE of ICE EQUAL to the MINING rate of a HULK... then make the RORQUAL be able to support something more then 1.5 hulks... like each Rorqual should be able to support 10+ Hulks...

If you decrese the compression time by a little (by giving rorqual a compression bonus per level) and increase the number of slots to 10-11 for compression on the rorqual (either by flat number of slots or again a rorqual bonus per level) then it would make that much more sense.

Honestly the Tractor beam, scanner, and drone bonuses are total lame in my opionion and we could lose those to make up for the bounses I suggested above.

Please do it.... so it can come out with this patch and not like 6 months later!!!!!
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#13 - 2013-05-08 02:31:45 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
With the new expansion being about exploration how about some serious increases to the jump range of the Rorqual? It is after all supposed to be the ship that makes industrial gameplay possible in the nether reaches of non-empire space. Limit it to its current jump range in low sec but double it's range when jumping into or around in Null sec. Some additional fuel consumption penalty for longer jumps should been implemented and a larger fuel bay should be a module Rorqual pilots could add.


That is not a bad idea... but if they just fix the compression problem and perhaps enlarge the ore hold and factory slots some I think your issues would be resolved indirectly.

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844

Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#14 - 2013-05-11 15:10:54 UTC
+1 Makes sense

Also would like to see the compression module for POS but that would obsolete rorqual somewhat. Perhaps rorqual could anchored so that it could beused without piloting it? Also cost of it lowered that it was not as big pirate / POS bash evoker.

Anyway good post makes sense! Bump
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#15 - 2013-05-11 19:33:44 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
+1 Makes sense

Also would like to see the compression module for POS but that would obsolete rorqual somewhat. Perhaps rorqual could anchored so that it could beused without piloting it? Also cost of it lowered that it was not as big pirate / POS bash evoker.

Anyway good post makes sense! Bump


I like what you are thinking, but by making the Rorqual itself a POS item will still not solve the problem.

The POS module will only be able to do 1 job at a time and probably at a slower/normal rate of compression, with a limited number of them anchored at POS because of CPU/POWER that a POS has.

To not make the Rorqual obsolete you would give the Rorqual more slots to manufacture and give it a compression reduction time big enough to make it better then POS module by far...

Also Rorqual will not be obsolete anyways cause pilots will always use it to give mining bonuses!

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-05-13 12:32:08 UTC
nothing says sensible and well thought out idea like capitalizing half the post and demanding everyone c/p it over and over again
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-13 16:05:31 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
nothing says sensible and well thought out idea like capitalizing half the post and demanding everyone c/p it over and over again


Forward this POST to 30 people and CCP Fozzie will send YOU shirtless pics!!!!
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-05-13 16:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
To actually be constructive, all the numbers for compression rate you've all been throwing out are still pretty terrible. It's not a joke like the current rate, but that's still alot of risk, time, and effort going into compressing ice down into something that's slightly less m^3 than the worthwhile components of the refined product.


An ice belt in 0.0 is currently 5,450,000m^3 and is worth roughly 1,947,880,000 isk.
Compressed, we get 545,000m^3 (I think, cba to check)
Refined, it's 1,689,000m^3 consisting of the following

183,750m3 isotopes @ 869,750,000 isk (nitrogen, prices aren't exact)
351,750m3 stront @ 44,555,000 isk
646,000m3 ozone @ 855,950,000 isk
507,500m3 heavy water @ 177,625,000 isk

You're most likely not going to manage to sell this in 0.0 (cue some dumb pub chiming in about how he can mine all day in his mackinaw in syndicate and manage to sell it all). You're going to lose money moving that stront, so just throw it in a hangar and forget about it. Heavy water -can- be exported for a small profit, but I'd rather not spend hours screwing with JF for ~tens of millions of isk~

So what 0.0 ice mongoloids are left with is 829750m3 worth about 1.72b per belt.
Now compare that to spending countless hours compressing **** in a rorqual to end up with 545000m3 worth 1.94b per belt.

Even if a rorqual can keep up with 10 hulks, why would you want to bother leaving exposed capital ships all over the place? You're better off mining out an anom, refining it, dumping the stront and water into a warehouse container, and then finding a nice grav site to mine somewhere.
Nofearion
Destructive Brothers
Fraternity.
#19 - 2013-05-13 17:17:30 UTC
+1
stats should be
holds the same - ability to grab ore/ ice from any bay - finish any bay
300% increase in slots - someone suggested 6 + 1 per level, Perfect :)
time - I think there should be a -5% reduction per level for manufacturing time related to Production efficiency skill.
nuff said
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#20 - 2013-05-15 08:08:28 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
So what 0.0 ice mongoloids are left with is 829750m3 worth about 1.72b per belt.
Now compare that to spending countless hours compressing **** in a rorqual to end up with 545000m3 worth 1.94b per belt.

Even if a rorqual can keep up with 10 hulks, why would you want to bother leaving exposed capital ships all over the place? You're better off mining out an anom, refining it, dumping the stront and water into a warehouse container, and then finding a nice grav site to mine somewhere.


This is very true... However that still does not mean the Rorqual will not be EVEN MORE broken after Oddessy.

You are forgetting one major fact in your plan however... HOW are you suspose to get the 5.4 million m3 from your ice belt to a refinery 3 jumps away to refine it... Your plan work fine if there is a refinery in an icebelt system, but lets face it not very many system in Nullsec have station in an ice belt system!

So you can now see that the fixing of the rorqual's compression is very needed... and or make a POS module for compression if they do not want to fix the rorqual.

Thanks for your input.

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844

12Next page