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Quick advice for early L4's
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Speedknot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-13 13:18:44 UTC
Hey guys, I know that there are a lot of posts from people looking to break into level 4 missions. I've done my best to do my homework ahead of time. I'm just hoping for a bit of direction. I'm currently flying this ship:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/27770-Perfect-Starter-Lv4-Mission-raven.html

At 5.5m SP I realize I'm pushing the envelope on my character's ability. As long as I'm mindful of trigger's I've been able to tank missions well enough. I'm not going to break earnings records, but I've not gone into structure either. My primary issue has been keeping elite frigs on me, and off my drones.

With the fit as it is, the tank already feels fairly thin. So I am loathe to give up a mid slot for a TP, is there any other option? My precision skill is only at 2 atm. It's on the list, but I have a ton of skills to train. Is training that up and simply brow beating them with cruise missiles my best bet?

Thanks in advance guys.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-13 14:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Callan
One possibility might be to switch out a Capacitor Flux Coil for a Damage Control II - it'll reduce your cap recharge rate, but it'll increase your capacitor reserve along with improving your resists across the board. (You can hopefully make room for the DC by ditching the tractor beam. If you're serious about salvage, you'll probably want a dedicated salvage boat of some sort in any case.)

And in a month, the Raven will be ditching one of its utility highs for a seventh mid, according to the dev posts, which should give you room for that target painter.

One option for keeping rats on you and off your drones might be to fit an energy vampire or an armor repair unit into one of your utility highs; I've found that using an armor rep on a drone taking hits causes rats to quickly switch aggro back to my main ship.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-13 14:30:18 UTC
Well this is just your skills limiting you. You don't have enough to kill them at range you can't drop tank for a tp and your drone skills aren't good enough so they can't kill the frigs before they pop themselves. At 5.5 mil sp that's what you have to expect.

Also that raven fit is horrible

Art of Explosions
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-13 14:54:42 UTC
Another fit to check out might be this one from Jester:

[Raven, L4 Missioner]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

He explains it here: http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/fit-of-week-mission-raven.html

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-05-13 14:58:54 UTC
That fit is incredibly old.

With the new mjd module most newbie missioners should just train skills for range and bounce around.

Art of Explosions
Seldom Seldin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-05-13 15:53:06 UTC
I invested in caldari navy cruise missile launchers instead of caldari navy BCU's. Not sure what prices are like now, I bought my stuff 4 years ago. I don't intend to train tech 2 CML's for a long time as I intend to switch over to a nightmare once my gunnery skills come up.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-13 16:28:27 UTC
Ok your using a raven, I would suggest you upgrade to a caldari Navy Issue Scorpion. The Navy Scorpion can mount a massive tank and has raven level dps.

This is the missions runners bible, http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=missionreports, it will tell you triggers, the dps type to tank and the dps type to use.






Ok, your biggest problem is frigs atm, I suggest this fit from BC, http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65831-Level-4-Missioning-Raven-Noob-Friendly-fit.html . whatever you can't T2 fit use meta 4 replacement, fitting problems ? use more meta 4 items.

1. Use Large Micro Jump drive, It will jump you out 100km, at that distance you can snipe down a lot of npc and they don't hit as hard. You might also want to mount a sensor booster or a signal amplifier to increase your lock range.

2. Mount a few drone link augmentor, this will increase the range of your drones which are what will kill frigs.

3. You can increase your drone damage by mounting a drone damage amplifier, this will help your drones do more damage.

4. Carry a full load of cheap light T1 hobgoblins for the frigs. You will lose a few but they are cheap like ammo. Don't use med or large drones. If you can keep your drones alive use t2 light drones.

5. Pulse your x-large shield booster when you taking some heavy shield damage, turn off your x-large shield booster when you are taking light damage and to keep from draining your cap.



Good luck.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#8 - 2013-05-13 18:32:07 UTC
My advice: Try running level 4 missions for 2 hours with your ship, then total up the amount of ISK + LP that you made.

Then run Level 3 missions for 2 hours, and repeat. You might be surprised by the result, until your BS skills improve.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#9 - 2013-05-13 19:10:34 UTC
Get all related skills that you can train to L3.
It takes almost no time at all.

After that work on getting your drones up.
If you can't use T2 lights and meds stay out of the L4's with your Raven.

Buy 3% implants that help your missiles or shields.
Slots 6-10 should have something in them even if only 1% implants.

Don't be scared of using a high slot for a NOS if you have the room.
A little extra cap is better then an empty slot.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#10 - 2013-05-13 20:16:59 UTC
So many horribly, horribly BAD fits in this thread.

Some pointers for you OP:
- Fit a cap booster, and then DO NOT fit anything else for cap.
- Rigs should always be Rigors and Flares.
- 3-4 resist mods and a large (XL if you can fit it) shield booster are enough tank for level 4s.
- Don't bother with Hammerheads, just keep a flight of Hobgoblins spare.
- Upgrade to a CN Raven as soon as you can afford it. Skip the CN Scorpion, it is just a Raven with more tank. Complete waste of money.
Speedknot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-05-13 22:50:20 UTC
Thanks for the responses guys. There are some bits I'm a little unclear on.

For the moment I can send drones out to 45km which is as much a death sentence now as it was in my drake. I'm a bit unclear on what a link augmenter would do for me. I can fly warrior II's (http://eveboard.com/pilot/Speedknot), but my drone skills are middling/poor. A webbed drone will rarely make it back to my hold even at 15km. Will capping drone nav and durability change that?

If I were to switch out for a MJD, would the recommendation be to change rigs to flare/rigor? The tank is adequate atm, not lovable, but serviceable. I haven't really felt pressed to dictate range in a missile boat until now.

The tractor in the linked fit is not actually fitted to the ship I fly, sorry I didn't mention that in the OP.

I had hoped to slow boat my way through some L4's to test the water in a ship that wouldn't cost me any tears if it popped. But if a faction ship is the barrier to entry, I can always save my pennies. Level 3's, while omnomzombie easy, are not really cutting it as a primary income source. I run 2 accounts with a noctis in fleet to sweep up, and the difference between a solid level 3 and easy level 4 is notable.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2013-05-14 00:13:46 UTC
I think most of the posters in this thread forget what its like to be a new player. Cap management(cap boosters) is not something that a new player can manage easily, well I couldn't and neither could the dozens of new players I have helped. I think the ship will do just fine. Still need to watch the cap obviously, but it will have a decent recharge time I suspect, not in front of HQ.
I would suggest just having a set of light drones, I use hobs for everything except angels and then use warriors, for close tackling frigs and never send them out past 10km.. carry some mediums to help out close by.
Also EVE isn't all about making isk, challenging yourself is great and jumping into lvl4's is a good way to do that.
I also wouldn't bother with a MJD, makes it all overcomplicated. Also nothing wrong with a navy scorp, you will get better applied dps as you can fit 2 x tp's with the same tank.. its a matter of preference.
Best way is to give it bash is the test server, or take someone in with you, feel free to look me up in game if you can't find a wing man..
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-14 00:21:04 UTC
Speedknot wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. There are some bits I'm a little unclear on.

For the moment I can send drones out to 45km which is as much a death sentence now as it was in my drake. I'm a bit unclear on what a link augmenter would do for me. I can fly warrior II's (http://eveboard.com/pilot/Speedknot), but my drone skills are middling/poor. A webbed drone will rarely make it back to my hold even at 15km. Will capping drone nav and durability change that?

If I were to switch out for a MJD, would the recommendation be to change rigs to flare/rigor? The tank is adequate atm, not lovable, but serviceable. I haven't really felt pressed to dictate range in a missile boat until now.

The tractor in the linked fit is not actually fitted to the ship I fly, sorry I didn't mention that in the OP.

I had hoped to slow boat my way through some L4's to test the water in a ship that wouldn't cost me any tears if it popped. But if a faction ship is the barrier to entry, I can always save my pennies. Level 3's, while omnomzombie easy, are not really cutting it as a primary income source. I run 2 accounts with a noctis in fleet to sweep up, and the difference between a solid level 3 and easy level 4 is notable.



People telling you to fit DLAs are probably assuming you can use sentries, which you probably cant.

Forget about the empty high slots for the moment, or if your OCD gets the better of you, stick a salvager and a small remote armour rep in them if have the skills to do so.

Drones are entirely there to deal with frigates that are webbing or scramming you as this can produce a large number of undesirable situations; unlike a gunboat however, you are not disadvantaged in the fact that you cannot shoot frigates who are orbiting at close range so realistically you can just ignore frigates (except if they are tackling you) since they should barely be able to scratch your tank.

Rigs on anything that uses battleship sized missiles should be 2x rigor and a flare (some people swear by 3 rigors but I think that's wrong).

Whoever told you that you need a faction ship to do level 4s should be repeatedly slapped in the face with a wet mackeral.

Art of Explosions
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-05-14 09:05:17 UTC
OK, there's a lot of difference of opinion.

You're right, DLA's are probably holdovers from the old aggro mechanics, before rats would actively hunt down drones. Nowadays, drones are best used in close, where they can be repaired or recalled more quickly.

And don't forget, in about 3 weeks, the Raven will be changing, as will cruise missiles, so a lot of the advice in this thread may end up obsolete. (Some of it twice over, including my own, I'm afraid.)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Wolf Taron
Redshift Anomalies
#15 - 2013-05-14 16:46:10 UTC
OK, here's my advise on a lowbie poor mans Raven. I made my first few billions with this one ...

Arbalest Cruise Launcher x6
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I x1
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I x1

X-Large C5-L Shield booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Target Painter
Active Hardeners T2 x4

Ballistic Control System T2 x4
Damage Control T2 x1

Large Capacitor Control Circuit x3

Medium Drones T2 x5
Light Drones T2 x5

Always check eve-survival for the proper resists and damage output (both missiles and drones). Learn to use your Invulnerabilities.

Use T2 Drones.

Propulsion Mod is not needed (fly to the next gate while shooting the baddies) except for some specific missions (like tractor beams, where you dont want to use a dedicated salvager).

Damage Control is in there for the emergency cases (60% structure resists) so you can kill the scrambling frigs while recharching cap for shield boost. Maybe a Signal Amplifier is viable here to make use of the cruise missiles' range, but i prefer to keep the rats at 50K or so, for the (medium) drones to do their work.

Cap Recharge Rigs is what you really need as a lowby. Thats what the Nosses are for also. Never mind the riggors.

Use a dedicated Salvager ship.

Find a system (or two next to each other) where you have two L4 agents giving you missions. So you can decline stuff.

Good luck.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-05-14 20:48:40 UTC
^ I don't think you've flown a raven in a level 4 for a while?

Art of Explosions
Wolf Taron
Redshift Anomalies
#17 - 2013-05-14 21:37:22 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
^ I don't think you've flown a raven in a level 4 for a while?


And this is your contribution ?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2013-05-14 22:33:13 UTC
Speedknot wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. There are some bits I'm a little unclear on.

For the moment I can send drones out to 45km which is as much a death sentence now as it was in my drake. I'm a bit unclear on what a link augmenter would do for me. I can fly warrior II's (http://eveboard.com/pilot/Speedknot), but my drone skills are middling/poor. A webbed drone will rarely make it back to my hold even at 15km. Will capping drone nav and durability change that?

If I were to switch out for a MJD, would the recommendation be to change rigs to flare/rigor? The tank is adequate atm, not lovable, but serviceable. I haven't really felt pressed to dictate range in a missile boat until now.

The tractor in the linked fit is not actually fitted to the ship I fly, sorry I didn't mention that in the OP.

I had hoped to slow boat my way through some L4's to test the water in a ship that wouldn't cost me any tears if it popped. But if a faction ship is the barrier to entry, I can always save my pennies. Level 3's, while omnomzombie easy, are not really cutting it as a primary income source. I run 2 accounts with a noctis in fleet to sweep up, and the difference between a solid level 3 and easy level 4 is notable.



A drone link augmentor is a wasted slot on nearly any setup. I tend to only launch drones when npc frigs are in close, I should probably use them a wee bit more but I'm lazy.

I'd suggest a cap booster + rigor set up. I already said I'm too lazy to use my drones properly, but nothing is better than a cap booster for cap! and rigors make cruise missiles so much better. Once you get used to the missions for the most part you won't even need it, but it is amazing to have if you say aggro the whole room accidentally. that said a Micro Jump Drive would save you even better, at 100km most rats do 0 damage.

Raven has 2 highs empty, might as well grab a tractor for loot cans. Also raven is fine to start level 4s with. I'd recommend it over the CNR to a new player just so they don't lose a 500m shiny. However once you know the missions and have the cash a CNR is a great step up.

Wolf Taron wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
^ I don't think you've flown a raven in a level 4 for a while?


And this is your contribution ?

eh, it amounted to about the same as yours.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-14 22:47:11 UTC
Wolf Taron wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
^ I don't think you've flown a raven in a level 4 for a while?


And this is your contribution ?


I'm just making sure the OP recognises that your post was outdated advice.

Art of Explosions
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-05-15 12:52:51 UTC

Wow this is a good example of the Eve community.. You ask what way is north and you will get four people pointing in four different directions. Often there is no "right answer" in Eve... There definitely can be a "wrong answer" but most of the advice here seems fair.



Now for my advice....

You said you were currently flying that setup... Did you mean that setup or you're flying that setup with T1 modules where you don't have the skills for T2?

If your goal is to make ISK and standings you should run level 3's till you get better skills. You will make more ISK per hour doing so. If you like the challange of doing level 4's with lower skills because you're bored as hell grinding level 3's by all means go ahead. Get a Navy Scorpion . Yes it's nothing but a Raven with a beefed up tank but since your skills are low this might be the help you need. The tank is significantly better than a Raven and it's relatively cheap.
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