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Upcoming Ice Changes and Multiboxers

Author
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-05-13 04:16:55 UTC
The only thing i dont like about the changes is the resulting massive hike in POS running costs.

There is no Bob.

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GreenSeed
#22 - 2013-05-13 04:37:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.

You do realize that depletion of ice belts and the decreased cycle time makes things harder on multiboxers, don't you?


no, i don't, because you don't seem to know what you are talking about, and i do. i doesn't make anything harder, i been doing it with regular mining for over 5 years now.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Not only will their ore holds fill up twice as fast so they'll have to micromanage that, the depleting ice chunks means that they can't sit in one spot either.
Controlling multiple mining ships + Orcas with one person is going to be a lot harder to manage.

wrong. fleet warps out, unloads at station, warps back to the ship being used as anchor, every 15 minutes instead of 30. if all strips have the same cycle time and focus the same rock the only moment where a boxer would be at a disadvantage would be if the amnt of rocks left is less than the sum of all strips. something that only happens at the end of life span of the rock.

also should the boxer decide to focus on different rocks, he can still reposition the anchor and issue a "regroup" fleet command. (one nifty command most people don't even know its in game)

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This is why, despite ore being more profitable, you don't see multiboxing ore mining fleets at nearly the same scale as multiboxing ice miners.

you don't see multiboxing ice fleets actually, you see random players who are taking advantage of a broken game mechanic. the same way you weren't seeing FW plexers months ago before the plex nerf, they were just taking advantage of a broken game mechanic.

as soon as this change goes live those people will leave the accounts lapse. they are not "multiboxers". multiboxers enjoy multiboxing, the game they are doing it in is secondary. and they will continue to multibox regardless of whatever change is implemented on the game.

the advantage i was referring to is the advantage that arises from the 4hr respawn mechanic.

every 4hrs a boxing fleet will walk out with the biggest share of the ice, end of story. what effect will that have on other miners is what matters. and if regular mining is anything to go by, my money is on them finding it unfair. and honestly i cant blame them.

also, considering this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230931&find=unread you can see how this can turn ugly real fast.

the 4h respawn is a bunch of crap. they should just make ice spawn everywhere like they already do with ore with respawns at downtime.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#23 - 2013-05-13 05:09:07 UTC
Posting in a stealth 'buff Eve is dying threads' thread.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#24 - 2013-05-13 09:30:45 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.



Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him.

Repeatedly. Twisted
Danni stark
#25 - 2013-05-13 09:34:10 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.



Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him.

Repeatedly. Twisted


and how does one dec an npc corp?
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-05-13 10:26:23 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy.


yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right?

And you point is? You have only 1 ore/gravi site but 5 or more regular belt. So you as a ganker where you will warp first, the gravi site ori pick a random belt in the system? I'm taking about null and WH space where a miner suppose to hang out in the gravi sites and not the regular belts.

Those whom never had the time to check out how the new ice belts looks like and their composition in hi sec, here is a pic from the test server.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-05-13 10:34:28 UTC
Sabotaged wrote:
One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close.

You are correct, multi-boxing carebears will have to innovate or die.

Sabotaged wrote:
I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work.

Then quit.

Sabotaged wrote:
Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?

If ice is valuable enough, people will do it. They will innovate. They will form fleets. They will leverage intel. No more AFK mining.

Sabotaged wrote:
Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing.

It's a social game, if you want to be anti-social, stay in hisec and fight over ice roids. Enjoy.

Sabotaged wrote:
While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember?

The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers?

There is also ice in null. Much of null is safer than hisec anyway. But carebears won't go to null because it doesn't suit an autistic anti-social playstyle.

Who cares? It's a market. If there are shortages, prices will rise. If prices get high enough, people will take risks and innovate, then prices will fall.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Danni stark
#28 - 2013-05-13 10:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy.


yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right?

And you point is? You have only 1 ore/gravi site but 5 or more regular belt. So you as a ganker where you will warp first, the gravi site ori pick a random belt in the system? I'm taking about null and WH space where a miner suppose to hang out in the gravi sites and not the regular belts.

Those whom never had the time to check out how the new ice belts looks like and their composition in hi sec, here is a pic from the test server.


no you don't, you have up to 9 (if i read the dev blog correctly) grav sites in null.
if you want to check how much ice the anoms have, fozzy made a post about it almost a few days ago.
Xayder
modro
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-05-13 11:01:28 UTC
Mordus tears best tears

I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-05-13 11:11:38 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.



Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him.

Repeatedly. Twisted

You don't have to wardec them. In many cases you can't.
The real solution is, warp several smartbombing battleships into their midst and activate them all at once.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-05-13 11:23:00 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
...
no you don't, you have up to 9 (if i read the dev blog correctly) grav sites in null.
if you want to check how much ice the anoms have, fozzy made a post about it almost a few days ago.

Well, I had visited only the hi sec systems around Jita and there was only 1 ice belt/system. As far as I know, after the ice belt depletes another one will spawn, so there will be only one active all the time and none more. By the way, jumpin around Jita with the new gate animation and dscan interface was an awesome experience, it like being in a new game, totally awesome.

Hope your right about the grav sites in null, I will have to test this on sisi asap. Otherwise the high end mineral prices will just skyrocket as almost none will mine it anymore.
Danni stark
#32 - 2013-05-13 11:24:37 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
...
no you don't, you have up to 9 (if i read the dev blog correctly) grav sites in null.
if you want to check how much ice the anoms have, fozzy made a post about it almost a few days ago.

Well, I had visited only the hi sec systems around Jita and there was only 1 ice belt/system. As far as I know, after the ice belt depletes another one will spawn, so there will be only one active all the time and none more. By the way, jumpin around Jita with the new gate animation and dscan interface was an awesome experience, it like being in a new game, totally awesome.

Hope your right about the grav sites in null, I will have to test this on sisi asap. Otherwise the high end mineral prices will just skyrocket as almost none will mine it anymore.


can you pick one and stick to it.

are we talking about ore anomalies or ice anomalies?

ore anomalies will be up to 9, ice anomalies will be as many as there are ice belts currently.
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-05-13 12:00:30 UTC
Im talking about ore, the ex gravimentric sites. In my short trip around Jita I never saw more than one per system in any hi sec system, so I will have to take a look in low and null sec to see if what are you saying is valid.
Danni stark
#34 - 2013-05-13 12:02:30 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Im talking about ore, the ex gravimentric sites. In my short trip around Jita I never saw more than one per system in any hi sec system, so I will have to take a look in low and null sec to see if what are you saying is valid.


oh, nobody really mines in grav sites at the moment. they're full of **** ore and takes too long to scan them down (assuming there is even one there to mine) nobody likes omber.

in null sec in an indy 5 system you get 1 grav site for each industry level, and in odyssey there will be 5% and 10% variants of the level 4 and 5 indy grav sites (according to the dev blog)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#35 - 2013-05-13 13:15:02 UTC
There are two things that will greatly diminish the effects of this on ice prices.

Stockpiles. Many, maybe most POS operators have accumulated huge stockpiles of fuel in one form or another. It will be months to years for it to get used up. By then some new player dynamic of how ice is gathered and distributed will have developed.

POSes. Ive been looking at the POS market. Prices are dropping. It would appear that demand is down. If 20% of all POSes are shut down, then high sec can again supply 100% of the games ice. (Actually right now it supplies something like 96%. Some mining does occur elsewhere).

Now about the multi-boxers: If you are a multi-boxer and do it for the ice, will you really keep doing that type of play once these changes go in? My guess is "no". You will close many accounts. That's one thing I find odd about this change; its going to cost CCP a few thousand accounts. Maybe the players will stay, but their account total will drop.

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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#36 - 2013-05-13 13:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Vincent Athena wrote:
...edit for space... That's one thing I find odd about this change; its going to cost CCP a few thousand accounts. Maybe the players will stay, but their account total will drop.


Maybe they are reigning in the boxed accounts a bit. It has gotten a little out of control, with some miners running 6 to 12 accounts simultaneously.

The only reason to keep alternate accounts around is really content creation. Many boxers point to the price of PLEX, but honestly CCP can raise or lower that any time that they need to.

Boxed accounts load the servers. If they are not paying for the servers directly or by creating content then there is no reason to keep them, let alone cater to them.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2013-05-13 14:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6639
Sabotaged wrote:

I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?

actually that is the plan, and I hope your feelings are shared by others (more for the rest of us).

I caught only the tail end of it in 2009, but what's that saying... "when all there was to do was mine, or shoot miners."

don't ask me why miners want to be miners... cuz I don't know. but an account is an account, and mining is a game mechanic, and if you get the right group of players together who are looking for a clear role to play...

...maybe we'll see joint mining and pvp groups again.

I'm a "multiboxer" and I don't see how multiboxing fits in with your larger argument against the ice belt changes. in fact I'm not sure what your point is, at all.
GreenSeed wrote:
multiboxers enjoy multiboxing, the game they are doing it in is secondary.

confirming this is just to satisfy my ADD :-D (you know me so well!)
GTC Onzo
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-05-13 15:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: GTC Onzo
I'm posting to confirm that I am an active multiboxer. I man a 12 man fleet via multiple screens, selected clients minimized and stacked on top of each other to monitor ore depletion or watch turrets in case I didn't hear an ore depletion warning.

I don't ice mine, never have in this current metagame. It isn't as profitable as active ore mining, as has already been stated. Current ice mining caters to a broken mechanic and an inactive player group exploiting easy isk. It gives those of us who are real 'multiboxers' a bad name. Some of us like mining and pve. It helps support the indy back bone of the game so that other people can fly around with their multipliboxed pvp ships and blow up multiboxed mining fleets.

I don't have the time to pvp like I would like, but I do enjoy the EvE atmosphere. I can talk with my friends and listen to their pvp ops while I mine, and I even throw out a suggestion from time to tiem that they didn't think of, that helps them out even though I'm multi boxing my miner fleet while theyre out doing the pvp's.

I don't do low or null sec mining b/c the current meta game does not encourage joint miner/ pvp ops like it used to. If things changed and I could mine in nullsec knowing there was a 15-30 man fleet, on my side, roaming around our backyard keeping myself and others safe, then I'd be much more inclined to move back to nullsec and whore up indy sites for a corp that would appreciate the extra ore income miners like myself would bring in. Old game mechanics used to support this type of play, current mechanics simply do not. A long time ago I used to mine dark glitter for a nullsec corp. They watched my back religiously, and I sold DG to them for 50% of market cost, but that was still MUCH more profit than high sec or even low sec ore mining. I enjoy being a working member of a large group, even if I don't pvp.

I'm a multiboxer and enjoy it. I do it in any game I play nearly. Multiboxing is what's fun (for me), the game is just the vehicle in which I use to get to my destination.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Deepwater Hooligans
#39 - 2013-05-13 17:03:55 UTC
Sabotaged wrote:
but I dont want to have to work.


Found your problem. Lazy ****.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-05-13 17:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
... marvels at the number of people who thought CCP was doing them a favour with the upcoming double speed cycle for ice mining... think it through next time. Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

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