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[proposal] ban the use of ISboxer

First post
Author
yodayblack
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#21 - 2013-04-26 15:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Isboxer is not a macro program. And if you die to 40 people in a pvp fleet. why are you soloing a 40 man fleet?
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
If you see a 80 man mining op do what everyone else does. POP THE ORCA POP THE ORCA!!!
For real where do you people get your info. Isboxer has keystroke broadcasting but mostly is a visual aid to see what the hell is going on with your multiple accounts in mission, some pvp and of course mining. These large one man 40 ship pvp fleets are so rare that you really never see them, or find someone that has proof that they saw one. Also.. If you attacked 40 ships solo weather one person was controlling them, or 40 people where controlling them YOUR STILL GONNA DIE! Wake up and stop crying its not hurting the game, or making people leave. You dont have to have multiple accounts to win in eve. Its just a play style.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-05-11 11:31:26 UTC
+1

i use multiple accounts but manual and i like this idea because of one example i have seen also i cant remember the name.
He used isboxer or something similar to run an incursion vg fleet alone with 7 nightmares and 2 or 3 basis. He may not be as
time efficient as the normal fleets but just take that as basis for the math.

10 accounts = 5.2b isk for 1 month plexxing
1 account should average at 70M/h doing incursions.

5200M/(70M/h * 10) = 7.42h to plex all characters.

Lets say he runs those fleet only 2h a day that would make him nearly 42b isk.

So im totally for it
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#23 - 2013-05-11 11:55:34 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
So basically what you're saying is you're too poor to afford the number of alts required for this sort of thing, and therefore since you can't have the ball, NOONE CAN HAVE it so you throw it on the roof and go home and cry to mummy.


Rather nicely put

Otherwise one must assume that the OP also would like to ban multiple monitors, multiple pc's, KVM's (if they still make them) and even RDP perhaps.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#24 - 2013-05-11 14:39:25 UTC
@OP, good post its nice that other consider this issue as well.

If these accounts are single person owned I am sure this guy does not pay for play but pays for plexes. This would be really good change and would help with several OP issues and false statistics that we receive from "players online"

+1 Definite bump!
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#25 - 2013-05-11 14:44:01 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:

80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).


Such would give single player too much influence over market price of ice. One player could easily **** the market with their effort making it poor experience for those that actually mine the ice in fair manner.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-13 17:55:20 UTC
There is no reason at all that ISBoxer or any program like it should be allowed if macro's are not allowed.

You may say that macro's are different from ISBoxer but you would be wrong. The only difference is that one allows you to be afk entirely while the other allows you to be afk from all but one account.

The only reason CCP won't do anything about ISBoxer is because a guy running 100 accounts, even though all 100 accounts are paid for by ISK buying PLEX, it will be lost revenue.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-05-13 17:58:24 UTC
safrrr wrote:
tho i have been inactive for quite some time, it appears that in the meantime, ccp has authorized a program called ISboxer for people to be used. appearently, this software allows multiple accounts to react to a single account.

ive entered a system, and saw 80 accounts all with the same name, and they were mining ice. must i remind CCP that during the early years, they declared war on macro mining, and that everyone even doing it for a second was banned? with the use of isboxer, even if the accounts were paid for, they most probably were still just farming isk and sold it for real life money. how the hell can i take CCP serious if they allowed such things?

the use of multiple accounts is allowed, but by allowing programs like these, you submit to the fact that you will never win against isk selling. that is not the CCP that i used to know. what happened from the early days of eve, till now, that made ccp allow isk selling? is it the constant line of active accounts on the servers? is it the declining interest in the game? start advertising on tv, would be a great start. get lady googoo to say, i love my spaceship. do you? and suddenly 5 million of her followers will start playing eve.



Isboxer isn't a macroing program.

Hope this helps.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-05-13 18:04:48 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:

80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).


Such would give single player too much influence over market price of ice. One player could easily **** the market with their effort making it poor experience for those that actually mine the ice in fair manner.



I don't think you understand how large the ice market is. We'll both worry together when he starts hitting 1000+ mackinaws.


Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
There is no reason at all that ISBoxer or any program like it should be allowed if macro's are not allowed.

You may say that macro's are different from ISBoxer but you would be wrong. The only difference is that one allows you to be afk entirely while the other allows you to be afk from all but one account.


Feel free to explain how isboxer is a botting tool. We'll wait.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-05-13 18:36:09 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Theia Matova wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:

80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).


Such would give single player too much influence over market price of ice. One player could easily **** the market with their effort making it poor experience for those that actually mine the ice in fair manner.



I don't think you understand how large the ice market is. We'll both worry together when he starts hitting 1000+ mackinaws.


Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
There is no reason at all that ISBoxer or any program like it should be allowed if macro's are not allowed.

You may say that macro's are different from ISBoxer but you would be wrong. The only difference is that one allows you to be afk entirely while the other allows you to be afk from all but one account.


Feel free to explain how isboxer is a botting tool. We'll wait.

If you seriously need it explained to you then it isn't worth the time.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-05-13 18:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

If you seriously need it explained to you then it isn't worth the time.



Translation: "I don't have an argument because I don't really understand what isboxer actually does. So here's a dismissive comment in which I pretend my point is self-evident, and that you would have to be a fool not to see it yourself."
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-05-14 05:16:33 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You may say that macro's are different from ISBoxer but you would be wrong. The only difference is that one allows you to be afk entirely while the other allows you to be afk from all but one account.


This doesn't make any sense. You're saying the person is at the keyboard & that they're somehow afk aswell.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-05-14 05:19:36 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:


Feel free to explain how isboxer is a botting tool. We'll wait.

If you seriously need it explained to you then it isn't worth the time.


You claimed ISboxer is a botting tool when it isn't. You were asked to explain your theory & refused because ISboxer isn't a botting tool.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

yodayblack
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#33 - 2013-05-14 22:44:56 UTC
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.

Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-05-15 00:04:11 UTC
yodayblack wrote:
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.




Botting is not only when you are AFK, botting is when you use ANY automated process.

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-05-15 02:44:16 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
yodayblack wrote:
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.




Botting is not only when you are AFK, botting is when you use ANY automated process.


And ISboxer isn't automated, move along.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-05-15 05:04:39 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
yodayblack wrote:
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.




Botting is not only when you are AFK, botting is when you use ANY automated process.


And ISboxer isn't automated, move along.



Yes it is. You move along.

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”

Hexor V
Galactic Terran Command
#37 - 2013-05-15 14:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hexor V
Ellen Thrace wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
yodayblack wrote:
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.




Botting is not only when you are AFK, botting is when you use ANY automated process.


And ISboxer isn't automated, move along.



Yes it is. You move along.


It doesn't automate a thing. Let me guess, you haven't actually used it?

Otherwise you would understand how this differs from bottling.


You either don't understand what multiboxing is, don't understand what botting is, or fail to understand what both are and how tremendously different they are from each other.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-05-16 02:59:02 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
yodayblack wrote:
You have to be at the keyboard to do anything with Isboxer. Thus its not a bot program. Botting is when you go to sleep and your accounts still mine ice. Try that with isboxer. i will enjoy seeing your kill mails in the New Orders Front page.




Botting is not only when you are AFK, botting is when you use ANY automated process.


And ISboxer isn't automated, move along.



Yes it is. You move along.


Then explain to us all how ISboxer supposedly requires zero human input to function.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Hexor V
Galactic Terran Command
#39 - 2013-05-16 20:45:29 UTC
Quote:
Hello there,

To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times.

Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping).

An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time!

Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA.

I hope this clears up this matter.

Best regards,
Senior GM Lelouch
EVE Online Customer Support

Beast Branded
OGB Investment Solutons
#40 - 2013-05-17 15:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast Branded
I said nothing about Automation.

I Said that I believe that (based from CCP's own EULA), ISBoxer and programs similar to it does if fact Facilitate the Process of multi-boxing to a degree far beyond the capabilities of other normal Multi-boxing techniques. it allows one person to make isk at an impossible rate.

Yes one person is giving manual commands, that not what i believe is the issue, I believe it's when that one command automatically goes to multiple (many) clients, that's a problem. CCP Soundwave said it best eve is about the interactions of the players. in eve people are meant to play/work together not by them-selves acting as a one man navy.

BUT.......

Hexor V wrote:
Quote:
Hello there,

To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times.

Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping).

An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time!

Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA.

I hope this clears up this matter.

Best regards,
Senior GM Lelouch
EVE Online Customer Support



Thanks Hexer and Sir Marksalot

cheating or not it should still be evaluated IMO

If a CSM, GM, or DEV can validate that old statement and/or formally ammendends their EULA... then this issue IMO is resolved.. This eve after all... And we all want more isk