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Question: Web drone stacking penalty?
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Menzisu Uiru
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-10 01:58:10 UTC
I don't know how to test this by myself. Light web drones each have a 5% web bonus. Does that add up to 25% web effect or is there a stacking penalty for each drone as if you were using 5 web modules?
stoicfaux
#2 - 2013-05-10 02:08:00 UTC
Menzisu Uiru wrote:
I don't know how to test this by myself. Light web drones each have a 5% web bonus. Does that add up to 25% web effect or is there a stacking penalty for each drone as if you were using 5 web modules?

Stacking penalty. http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking

IIRC, you can also use EFT's DPS window which should apply effects such as TPs and Webs to the target shipt.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-10 04:03:41 UTC
Webber drones are fully subject to stacking penalties making them effectively useless for the most part in my opinion.

A max skills no implant/other speed mod MWD gnosis pulls 1088m/s. With 5 webber drones it's 941m/s with lights, 810m/s with mediums, and 588m/s with heavies. For reference a T1 webber drops the gnosis to 544m/s which is an additional 7.5% drop in speed over the usage of 5 heavies with a 20%/drone speed reduction.

So:
Light x5 = 13.5% reduction in speed
Medium x5 = 25.5% reduction
Heavy x5 = 46% reduction
T1 webber = 50% reduction

Combine that with top speeds (without drone nav CPUs or ship bonuses) of 3km/s, 2.5km/s, and 1875m/s respectively and you've got drones which are of very questionable value. Even if you toss in a pair of drone nav CPUs only light drones have a reasonable shot at catching interceptors (mediums only hit 4km/s), and the value of dropping their speed by only 13.5% is debatable.

At the moment there are effectively no productive applications of webber drones in PvE. Five heavy webber drones used to be approximately as effective as mid-grade named webbers, but now they're worse than T1 webbers in terms of stopping power. On top of that the change to allow MWDs to function normally in deadspace means that a lot of the reason to use webber drones (slowing down NPCs when slowboating after them with a short-range ship using an afterburner) just got tossed out the airlock.

stoicfaux wrote:
IIRC, you can also use EFT's DPS window which should apply effects such as TPs and Webs to the target shipt.


You can also drag & drop them into the projected effects section at the bottom of the fitting window to see how they'd affect the ship you're flying.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#4 - 2013-05-10 04:28:45 UTC
How about using them with say a kiting Omen?

5 lights using the above example would give you the upper hand is speed against preety much all of the other attack cruisers and a bit more utility to slw down people burning for you so you'd get more time to apply the excellent damage at range.

vOv might give it a go.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#5 - 2013-05-10 04:59:56 UTC
Shereza wrote:
A max skills no implant/other speed mod MWD gnosis pulls 1088m/s. With 5 webber drones it's 941m/s with lights, 810m/s with mediums, and 588m/s with heavies.


Either your numbers are off, or mine are. Taking the same Gnosis (1088m/s), and using 5 webber drones on it, I get the following reductions:

Light webber drones: -14.14% speed, Gnosis is now going 934m/s
Medium drones: -28.28%, Gnosis @ 780m/s
Heavy drones: -26.57%, Gnosis @ 472m/s
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-10 10:55:27 UTC
If I'm reading the formula on the page linked to earlier your numbers are off. You're adding the modified penalties together before multiplying them against the base speed. 1088 - ((20% + 17.38% + 11.41% + 5.66% + 2.12%) * 1088) = 1088 - (.5673 * 1088) = 1088 - 615.51424 = 472.48576 = 472

EFT, and the way the formulas read to me, is more like:
Base velocity = 1088m/s.
Velocity with one heavy webber drone = 1088 * (1 - .2) = 870.4m/s
Second drone = Velocity after first drone * (1 - (.2 * 0.869119981)) = 870.4 * (1 - .173824) = 719.1036
Third drone = 719.1036 * (1 - .114117) = 637.0419
Fourth drone = 637.0419 * (1 - .056591) = 600.9911
Fifth drone = 600.9911 * (1 - .021199) = 588.2509

Bear in mind that my average sleep for the last 3-4 days has been something like a 4-5 hour average and I'm currently running on the fumes of more caffeine and sugar consumed in one day than I normally have in a couple weeks so some of that might not be as clear as it could be or it could just be flat out wrong.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-05-10 12:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Froggy Storm
Correct me if I am wrong, when they did the drone ai and or rendering upgrades they changed them from being individuals to 1 entity when on a single target. I guess I assumed that effected the calculations for the drones as well. I base this purely on observation of drone damage ticks on the UI. No mater how slow one drone gets to the pack the damage seems to roll at the same speed. There isn't any syncopation for flight times or elliptical orbits from MWD etc. Not that could simply be a factor of server heart beat or other underlying timing mechanism. Make one wonder which equation makes mose sense though.

(Waits patiently for ocd log parser math wiz to chime in)
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#8 - 2013-05-10 13:04:24 UTC
I think all the underpowered ewar drones should be reworked to be mixed in a flight of combat drones, so for instance a light stasis webber drone will web at <40% with a higher penalty for stacking, possibly with less than 50% more effect for using two on one target. The rest of the drones could be scaled from there, with lights being sub t1 effect, medium being meta 3, and heavy being t2. With each having about 5 to 10% more effect for t2.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-10 21:08:46 UTC
I would love to see web and sd drones become useful! The ec drones are fine as they are but imagine what a thorax xould accomplish with 3 web drones and 2 hammers. Thats almost too much utility!