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[CrdG] CONCORD and the Shakor Administration

Author
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-05-09 21:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi
I do think it's important to draw a distinction here between the Matari in the Republic and those elsewhere, Graelyn. It's not the Matari who have shown their nature, it's the Republic, an entity which does not even represent a simple majority of free Minmatar.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2013-05-09 21:24:05 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I do think it's important to draw a distinction here between the Matari in the Republic and those elsewhere, Graelyn. It's not the Matari who have shown their nature, it's the Republic, an entity which does not even represent a simple majority of free Minmatar.


Too right.

Especially when I, as a Minmatar, am in agreement with him. Not to mention the Minmatar in the fold of the Amarr faith.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#43 - 2013-05-09 21:53:30 UTC
Not to mention the Matari actually using their brains.

Oh, sorry, that wasn't a midular pun.
But with a third of matari being Republican, another third being ammatar or enslaved... you'd think the last third is sensible enough.

Good thing we hired most of them.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-05-09 21:55:50 UTC
Halete wrote:
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I do think it's important to draw a distinction here between the Matari in the Republic and those elsewhere, Graelyn. It's not the Matari who have shown their nature, it's the Republic, an entity which does not even represent a simple majority of free Minmatar.


Too right.

Especially when I, as a Minmatar, am in agreement with him. Not to mention the Minmatar in the fold of the Amarr faith.


Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire. Only 1/4 of their population reside in the Republic.

Nearly as many, 1/5, in the Federation.

Food for thought.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#45 - 2013-05-10 00:17:45 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Halete wrote:
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I do think it's important to draw a distinction here between the Matari in the Republic and those elsewhere, Graelyn. It's not the Matari who have shown their nature, it's the Republic, an entity which does not even represent a simple majority of free Minmatar.


Too right.

Especially when I, as a Minmatar, am in agreement with him. Not to mention the Minmatar in the fold of the Amarr faith.


Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire. Only 1/4 of their population reside in the Republic.

Nearly as many, 1/5, in the Federation.

Food for thought.

Rest assured most dread Lady, there are those of us who have been giving “demographics” a considerable amount of thought of late.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-05-10 01:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I do think it's important to draw a distinction here between the Matari in the Republic and those elsewhere, Graelyn. It's not the Matari who have shown their nature, it's the Republic, an entity which does not even represent a simple majority of free Minmatar.


Don't bother trying to draw a destinction between the Republic as a nation and the Minmatar as a people my friend. No matter how clearly and blatantly you refer to the Republic as a political entity and not a racial one, people will still accuse you of being racist because it's the only (pitiful) defense they can turn to, but I digress.

Graelyn wrote:

CONCORD should remove the Minmatar Republic as a member state of the Yulai Convention until this chaotic rogue regime can be ended.


I feel removing the Republic from the Yulai Convention will only make them want to violate it more. Even though these violations have been total failures in achieving anything, they still have claimed countless lies.

The solution is for CONCORD to impose strict sanctions upon the Republic and for the nations of New Eden to make both political and economic embargoes on the Republic.

These actions and others, will punish the Republic for their crimes until they atone for them. Most importantly, such measures will make a bold statement that it is possible to take action and make changes without resorting to mindless, chaotic, violence.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
#47 - 2013-05-10 02:11:00 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

Rest assured most dread Lady, there are those of us who have been giving “demographics” a considerable amount of thought of late.


That's for sure. Who wants a rabid dog loose in one's own backyard?

Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-05-10 04:50:14 UTC
Why should the Republic enjoy the benefits of CONCORD membership without having to uphold their end of the bargain?

For those of you who would like to place a price on the heads of any of these savages without risk of retaliation, my office is always open. I'm currently providing my services for the low, low price of free.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#49 - 2013-05-10 05:36:37 UTC
Your desires for punitive measures against the Republic will not affect the government, the entity that actually gave the order to violate Federal space. Sanctions will only hurt the average Matari who had nothing to do with the debacle. Punishing the average person will only serve to create an "us vs them" mentality among even those who feel that what the government did was wrong. The tribes will band together behind their current leaders, as they have done historically, when they perceive their people under attack by outsiders. In short, you'll get the opposite results to what you want.

Is it in anyone's interests to isolate the Republic in this manner and create a new group of radicalized individuals who will resort to the most extreme acts in order to fight what they'll see as injustice done to their people? And what about the Amarr? How would you all feel if they decided to seize this moment to attack?

Let's not get carried away with punishments, no matter how wronged we may feel. Let's remember that the majority of Minmatar do not want war and likely do not support this government. Far better to engage these people than to push them even further away and turn them all into hate-filled potential terrorists.

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#50 - 2013-05-10 06:09:10 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Don't bother trying to draw a destinction between the Republic as a nation and the Minmatar as a people my friend. No matter how clearly and blatantly you refer to the Republic as a political entity and not a racial one, people will still accuse you of being racist because it's the only (pitiful) defense they can turn to, but I digress.

I'd never had this problem.

Within the Kingdom there are Minmatar citizens. Within the Republic there are Minmatar and non-Minmatar citizens. Then there are the Tribes, which are all Minmatar, and predate the Republic as cultural entities.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-05-10 07:48:01 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire.


Yes, people too readily forget, it is an unfortunate truth.

It does make you wonder how the Republicans can continue to be so head-fast and believe that they know what's best for all Minmatar.

Yet when an Ammatar speaks out against the actions of the Republic - it is dismissed because 'they're brainwashed'.

Funny, isn't it?

When a Minmatar pirate speaks out against the Republic - their points are dismissed because of a moral high-ground that the Republicans take.

... Hmm.

Such blindness. And to think, that my sibling pilots condemn me for chastising this decadent, unruly horde of war-mongers and their whores.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#52 - 2013-05-10 09:10:30 UTC
Halete wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire.


Yes, people too readily forget, it is an unfortunate truth.

It does make you wonder how the Republicans can continue to be so head-fast and believe that they know what's best for all Minmatar.

Yet when an Ammatar speaks out against the actions of the Republic - it is dismissed because 'they're brainwashed'.

Funny, isn't it?

When a Minmatar pirate speaks out against the Republic - their points are dismissed because of a moral high-ground that the Republicans take.

... Hmm.

Such blindness. And to think, that my sibling pilots condemn me for chastising this decadent, unruly horde of war-mongers and their whores.


Well, that does appear quite a change of pace for you capsuleer.
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-05-10 09:23:12 UTC
My own personal asumption regarding all this that has happened with the Ray of Matar, would only point to a internal Matar Issue... This said, all four bigger entities, have factions within them that acts in manners that will affect the entity as a whole, but in this case it have to be up to the Republic to deal with their own "politics" as a souverign entity... Exactly as The Amarr will have to deal with House Sarum if it choose to start a "reclaming"... Exactly as we need to let the State deal with its own internal social instability at moment, outside interaction will only destabilice things more
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#54 - 2013-05-10 11:41:36 UTC
Halete wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire.


Yes, people too readily forget, it is an unfortunate truth.

It does make you wonder how the Republicans can continue to be so head-fast and believe that they know what's best for all Minmatar.

Yet when an Ammatar speaks out against the actions of the Republic - it is dismissed because 'they're brainwashed'.

Funny, isn't it?

When a Minmatar pirate speaks out against the Republic - their points are dismissed because of a moral high-ground that the Republicans take.

... Hmm.

Such blindness. And to think, that my sibling pilots condemn me for chastising this decadent, unruly horde of war-mongers and their whores.


Tell me again how you wish we were friends, Halete?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2013-05-10 11:50:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


I feel removing the Republic from the Yulai Convention will only make them want to violate it more. Even though these violations have been total failures in achieving anything, they still have claimed countless lies.

The solution is for CONCORD to impose strict sanctions upon the Republic and for the nations of New Eden to make both political and economic embargoes on the Republic.

These actions and others, will punish the Republic for their crimes until they atone for them. Most importantly, such measures will make a bold statement that it is possible to take action and make changes without resorting to mindless, chaotic, violence.



Oh, that would work too. But I do not see why they would answer less abrasively about that.

Nick Bete wrote:
Your desires for punitive measures against the Republic will not affect the government, the entity that actually gave the order to violate Federal space. Sanctions will only hurt the average Matari who had nothing to do with the debacle. Punishing the average person will only serve to create an "us vs them" mentality among even those who feel that what the government did was wrong. The tribes will band together behind their current leaders, as they have done historically, when they perceive their people under attack by outsiders. In short, you'll get the opposite results to what you want.

Is it in anyone's interests to isolate the Republic in this manner and create a new group of radicalized individuals who will resort to the most extreme acts in order to fight what they'll see as injustice done to their people? And what about the Amarr? How would you all feel if they decided to seize this moment to attack?

Let's not get carried away with punishments, no matter how wronged we may feel. Let's remember that the majority of Minmatar do not want war and likely do not support this government. Far better to engage these people than to push them even further away and turn them all into hate-filled potential terrorists.



Who said that CONCORD was not included in the proposal ? A full demilitarization could be in order too, replaced with CONCORD police. That might sound rather extreme, but to extreme governments and military actions, extreme measures can be in order.

However, I agree with you that it might be harmful on the long run, antagonizing them.

When children are being punished, it is a for a reason. If they can not learn from it, further measures have to be taken. It is quite similar to classical conditioning. Of course, though, further parameters have to be taken in account when dealing with whole nations.

Embargoes could be the solution. I could support that instead.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-05-10 11:54:01 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:

Tell me again how you wish we were friends, Halete?


I do.

It wasn't so long since that you spoke out against the Republic. I notice that you've gone on-the-quiet about that since joining Gradient once more.

I do want to be your friend, Ava. And I also want what's best for Minmatar.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#57 - 2013-05-10 13:38:26 UTC
When a child keeps poking other children with a pointy stick, the stick gets taken away, and the child sent to bed with no supper.

Jovians and the SOCT occasionally call everyone else "children".

So... it might be a good idea not to keep poking things, lest the Jovians take spaceships away from the Minmatar entirely.

Because then where would the Tribes be? Shafted. That's where.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#58 - 2013-05-11 01:25:10 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
However, so long as you and yours cling to the notion that you are a superior race divinely ordained to rule over the rest of humanity and use force to subjugate others, what is there to talk about?


A good point, except that you still haven't been able to work out which Tribe is superior to all the other Tribes, let alone all the "lesser races" (read: Non-Matari) of New Eden. So even after you've fulfilled your dreams of enslaving & exterminating all non-Matari life in New Eden it still won't solve the problem: It will simply mean the return of inter-tribal fighting to determine who the real "Master Bloodline" is.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#59 - 2013-05-11 17:23:48 UTC
Halete wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Sometimes people forget that the majority of all Matari, everywhere, live in the Empire.


Yes, people too readily forget, it is an unfortunate truth.

It does make you wonder how the Republicans can continue to be so head-fast and believe that they know what's best for all Minmatar.

Yet when an Ammatar speaks out against the actions of the Republic - it is dismissed because 'they're brainwashed'.

Funny, isn't it?

When a Minmatar pirate speaks out against the Republic - their points are dismissed because of a moral high-ground that the Republicans take.

... Hmm.

Such blindness. And to think, that my sibling pilots condemn me for chastising this decadent, unruly horde of war-mongers and their whores.


Tell us how you really feel, child.


Katran Luftschreck wrote:
A good point, except that you still haven't been able to work out which Tribe is superior to all the other Tribes, let alone all the "lesser races" (read: Non-Matari) of New Eden. So even after you've fulfilled your dreams of enslaving & exterminating all non-Matari life in New Eden it still won't solve the problem: It will simply mean the return of inter-tribal fighting to determine who the real "Master Bloodline" is.



Please change your hairstyle. It's bad enough to see another Kat be so deluded and beyond any semblance of sanity, but to have to share the same hairstyle as well? The hairstyle doesn't even suit you.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-05-11 22:13:11 UTC
Well this is interesting.
Its been a while since I've been in civilized imperial space, I think I might just return home and see what the Empire requires of a wayward soul like myself.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.