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Frigates in forsaken hub with the upcoming patch ?
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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-05-07 15:30:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
well, my idea was of a more trivial level.
The fact that (more) sanctums are only available in very low security space and the fact that people prefer different anomalies which spawn in worse space contradict each other - if people ignore "high end" anoms (spawn in best space) in favor of "worse" ones (spawn in crappy space), in other words when better anoms spawn in worse space - my common sense tells me there must be something wrong about it.


Common Sense has never and will never trump direct knowledge. In this case, CCP's EHP/isk change to anomalies, a kind of "tiercide" for anoms where lower level anoms were buffed with more BS and BC rats so that "less valuable space" would not be useless (ie so that space withot havens and sanctums could still be useful).

The reasonable fix for forsaken hubs is not to turn is to reverse the EHP/isk buff a bit (ie replace some battleships with some cruisers and BCs), not adding frigs. If you add frigs you get all the bad effects I mentioned above. Forsaken hubs would go from "overpowered but good" for generating grunt player isk to "no reason to do this at all now".

The whole purpose of the EHP/isk buff was to make lower end stuff worth running. That ONLY worked for Forsaken and Forlorn Hubs (and forsaken and forlorn rally points, which are marginally ok if you have nothing else).

All the rest of the anoms are pure crap and if you take forsaken hubs away (and keep the current system where the vast majority of upgraded systems can't spawn a single sanctum) you end up with a 2nd exodus to high sec (the 1st exodus after the 1st anom nerf is what prompted the EHP/isk buff to begin with).


I for one and tired of watching CCP change stuff to only have to go back and rechange it because they didn't know enough about the thing in the 1st place. in this case, the positive effect or less forsaken hub farming (less inflationary pressure as less isk is made) will be offset by the fact that fewer ships will explode because rather than sit in a forsaken hub and get scrammed, PVe players will jsut do something else.

It will also exacerbate the current imbalance between null sec personal level isk making and what you can do in other places. As it is now a Vindicator in Serpentis Space (for example) running nothing but forsaken hibs can only JUST make more individual isk than taking that same vindi into a HIGH SEC incursion fleet where their is consdierably less danger. After this nerf, it would be stupid to use that Vindi in null sec to make less isk than you could in high sec.
Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2013-05-07 15:35:53 UTC
your common sense Robert my friend precludes two extremely large points that leave your statement plain false or just uninformed

the main point is that there simply are very few sanctums available, sanctums are only available in very low true sec space -7 at the least, and most of the systems with sanctums spawn just one at a time meaning only one person per system for sanctum ratting, ive lived with my corp in a few areas of null now, ive ratted guri/serp/sansha/blood and now angels, ive only seen 3 sanctums in one system in the deepest true sec systems in dek/fountain no more than a few over whole regions, a big part of why people rat in f.hubs is because there just more plentiful while still remaining worth the time put in, anything lower is not.

the other point is that absolutely NO alliance on this planet in the history of eve and most certainly any that are alive today, will point blank fight a sov war to gain their members better ratting space, anyone who says otherwise dose not have a clue what their talking about, not trying to insult but if you actually say otherwise you don't live in nullsec space and have never been affiliated with a single sov holding corp/alliance. alliances declare war for either moons or personal beef which is then called "looking for gudfights", we the grunts have to work around this by making do with what we have.

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-05-07 15:53:20 UTC
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
your common sense Robert my friend precludes two extremely large points that leave your statement plain false or just uninformed

the main point is that there simply are very few sanctums available, sanctums are only available in very low true sec space -7 at the least, and most of the systems with sanctums spawn just one at a time meaning only one person per system for sanctum ratting, ive lived with my corp in a few areas of null now, ive ratted guri/serp/sansha/blood and now angels, ive only seen 3 sanctums in one system in the deepest true sec systems in dek/fountain no more than a few over whole regions, a big part of why people rat in f.hubs is because there just more plentiful while still remaining worth the time put in, anything lower is not.

the other point is that absolutely NO alliance on this planet in the history of eve and most certainly any that are alive today, will point blank fight a sov war to gain their members better ratting space, anyone who says otherwise dose not have a clue what their talking about, not trying to insult but if you actually say otherwise you don't live in nullsec space and have never been affiliated with a single sov holding corp/alliance. alliances declare war for either moons or personal beef which is then called "looking for gudfights", we the grunts have to work around this by making do with what we have.


Well said.

At least the current forsaken hubs make upgraded null systems without sanctums and havens viable. You take that away you end up right where you were AFTER the 1st anom nerf and before the EHP/isk buff.

Come on CCP, try to remember the very recent past here. Like I said, it won't affect me much, but it will be bad for null sec overall.

10 million isk says CCP has to come back for another look at anoms within 6 months if they go ahead with this.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#24 - 2013-05-07 16:02:17 UTC
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
but if you actually say otherwise you don't live in nullsec space and have never been affiliated with a single sov holding corp/alliance.

oh I see you are affilated with sov holding a lot, as part of alliance which switched sides in order to keep ratting space in the south.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-05-07 16:41:09 UTC
Keenky wrote:
Josefine Etrange wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
the issue with adding frigates to these plexes as well further nerfs bombers for solo ratter ganking, which adds up to the NPC aggro switching mechanics and turns bombers from nearly unviable to totally useless for this specific style of play.

Another reason to switch from combat bomber to cyno bomber and dropping stuff on ratter instead of a chil roam.


cause thats what bombers were designed for right, solo ratting!


I think you guys missed something in there ....


Typical lowsec and nullsec. Dont risk anything worth more than 5 million when alone. Only fly expensive ships when you have such big numbers in fleet and system that nothing with bigger numbers could show up surprisingly. Only fight when you outnumber everything. Dumb PVP in Eve is the issue and blobgankers with no balls.


And you're a badass for flying expensive ships in high sec :D?

Art of Explosions
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-05-08 03:26:37 UTC
While i use multiple ships to rat with and run different sites changing forsaken hubs wont dangerously affect my isk making. It will mean that I will have to find a back end system that noone else would go near to make isk.

How about instead of having less battleships or adding frigates lets add 2-3 BCs per spawn. The increase in isk should be balanced by taking longer to run and more risk by the increase in dps.
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-05-08 12:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnoshia
@jenn aSide

I think they're just adding warp scrambling frigs to forsaken hubs and that's it since that's the anom that everyone is running these days.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#28 - 2013-05-08 12:45:30 UTC
Gnoshia wrote:
@jenn aSide

I think they're just adding warp scrambling frigs to forsaken hubs and that's it since that's the anom that everyone is running these days.


I know that, I think it's a mistake. I think a better plan would be to scale back Forsaken Hubs in the EHP/isk area (what got buffed last time they did something to anoms, because when they changed the upgrade system they realized that every anom other than sanctums and havens sucked).

To be honest it's easy to see that forsaken hubs are unbalanced. it's how ccp fixes than inbalance that's important. I don't do forsaken hibs anymore because in my case with a 2 ship set up Forlorn Hubs are way better, but I hate to see CCP take a step backwards when it comes to null sec personal (grunt player) income, because the consequences of that are fewer people ratting in null sec (just like the 1st anomaly nerf).
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-05-08 15:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnoshia
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gnoshia wrote:
@jenn aSide

I think they're just adding warp scrambling frigs to forsaken hubs and that's it since that's the anom that everyone is running these days.


I know that, I think it's a mistake. I think a better plan would be to scale back Forsaken Hubs in the EHP/isk area (what got buffed last time they did something to anoms, because when they changed the upgrade system they realized that every anom other than sanctums and havens sucked).

To be honest it's easy to see that forsaken hubs are unbalanced. it's how ccp fixes than inbalance that's important. I don't do forsaken hibs anymore because in my case with a 2 ship set up Forlorn Hubs are way better, but I hate to see CCP take a step backwards when it comes to null sec personal (grunt player) income, because the consequences of that are fewer people ratting in null sec (just like the 1st anomaly nerf).


I agree. Seems like they're doing this to get rid of afk or semi-afk ratting. Was apparent with the drone nerf (improved rat AI) and then now this. They want us watching the screen and paying attention instead of tabbed out reading news articles while making ISK.

Sigh.

Oh well. I usually listen to Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage while I rat anyway.
Snyderm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-05-09 17:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Snyderm
I think CCP feels they have to make changes to forsaken hubs because they have finally realized that the lower security systems aren't better than the highest security null sec for generic ratting.

When CCP rebalanced Hubs, Havens, and Sanctums, they didn't have the faintest clue what they were doing. None. They balanced these anomolies based on the total payout they would yield. They ignored completely the only measure of worth anyone would actually care about, which is isk per hour.

Now as a ratter, why would I run a sanctum over a hub, when a sanctum requires a tankier ship (which leads to fitting less DPS) that then leads to less isk per hour than I would get if I were running hubs?

Why then, even make Sanctums?

I think CCP is looking at how things are working, and realized that the higher end sanctums are being ignored, and the lower end ones are being valued. I still have no confidence that they will balance things in a way that makes any sense, however.

Oh, and just as an aside, I have been in several nullsec alliances and coalitions, and I can state with certainty that not a single one (alliance leadership) ever cared in the slightest about the ratting space its members had. They will agree to have ops to make sure some systems get upgraded, but it has never been the slightest consideration when it comes to what space to occupy. CCP really showed their ignorance in the past when they assumed that nullsec would get occupied based on its ratting value.
kari bourza
Shield of Iron Crown
#31 - 2013-05-09 21:19:39 UTC
People don't like frigates in their hubs, because they are annoying and useless waist of time and ammo, CCP go on and put frigates in every HUB, what kind of ******* business philosophy is this ...
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